Ford Model A conversion

[geresh]

Hello good people...

Finishing up a continental powered Air Camper and looking towards my next project. I have an older experimental airplane (not a Piet) that needs a Ford model A hanging on the front. Does anyone have a lead on a good used engine, or even a source of info other than the BHP conversion plans? I am willing to learn and located in Arkansas.

Thanks.

[Bill palmer]

I have a Model A engine that I was told just came from the Babbitt shop with new bearings etc. I’m building a Peit and hope to use a model B engine as it has a better oiling system . Call me interested!
352 221 3301

[geresh]

Update, I found a model A engine, but still know very little about it. Supposedly, a "Brodhead guru" did the conversion 20+ years ago, and it has been stored in Arizona for most of that time before it found its way to Iowa and now Arkansas. It appears to have very little if any run time, the previous owner did run it about 30 minutes last month. I will try to add some pictures. Does anyone recognize any particular components that may shed light on who actually did the conversion work? It seems pretty unique to me to have 2 slick magnetos, the second being installed backwards on the left side. I have so many questions, but will start off with a couple:

1. When using a dual ignition setup, what head should be used? I believe some people are using the Lion Speed head or the Secrets of Speed head, but as far as I can tell, both of these are made of unobtanium. Is it acceptable to drill/tap a second spark plug hole in the head? Or is there someway to have dual ignition all the way up to the spark plug, with only a single plug?

2. What oil should be used? Is everyone using the normal Aeroshell/Phillips or something else? I imagine it might depend on whether it has insert or babbitt bearings. I intend to take the oil pan off and take a good look around before bolting to the airplane.

[Richard Roller]

That engine was done by Ken Perkins, at least it has a lot of components that he made. It looks like a Forrest Lovley radiator. I have Ken's Pietenpol, N34KP.

Ken built several engines with dual ignition. I'm not sure if any of them have flown. He talked about doing it on his bird, but never did. Several dual ignition Piets fly to Brodhead. Dan Helspur has one of them. He might be able to tell you what he uses. I believe Dan used one of Ken's side drives for the second magneto. They are essentially govenor drives from the industrial engine version of the Model A. He had gear clearance problems with the magneto drive and ended up stripping the teeth off the cam gear. He still uses a dual plug head, but now uses a mag pluged into the distributor drive hole. A Vertex mag, I believe.

Ken used a mix of 10 and 30 weight non detergent oil. I never could get a good reason for that from him. I use Valvoline VR1 20w50 detergent oil.

Would your engine have come from Dennis Hall? Did you get the Corben come with the engine?

Richard Roller

[geresh]

Richard,

Thanks for the info. The Corben did not come with the engine, it was originally built in the early 1970's and flown with a Chevy Vega engine. The engine was acquired by a man named Hendrix in Iowa from a Piet builder's estate. The plan is to do a recover and use the Ford A. I am currently finishing up a 14 year build on an Air Camper, and am working hard to get everything painted before it starts freezing here. The Corben/Ford project will be mostly sitting until the Piet gets flown.

Is the mag mounted in the distributor hole a more reliable setup? I have seen Piet's at Brodhead with a mag there, but not on the side that I recall.

[Richard Roller]

The only side drive mag that I know has flown is the one I mentioned that belongs to Dan Helspur. I have seen numerous top drives through the distributor hole.

[geresh]

Update on this project. I know it's not a Pietenpol, but it has more in common with a Pietenpol than any other group. The engine is on the airframe, and running. It mostly uses the standard Pietenpol conversion that was already done, with a few modifications:
1. Side mounted water pump. Pump is from a 1995 Jaguar with the serpentine pulley removed and replaced with a V-belt pulley.
2. Underslung radiator. Radiator is a 4-row aluminum radiator, from a 1992 Honda Civic.
3. Custom intake manifold. Due to the relative low position of the wing, the carb needed dropped in order to acheive sufficient fuel pressure. Also, due to the tight fitting cowling, the carb heat muff around the exhaust would have looked out of place. The solution was to make a jacket around the intake manifold, that is filled with circulating hot coolant.
4. Thermostat housing. A thermostat was added to the exit (top) side of the engine to help it get up to temperature and to ensure hot coolant to the intake manifold. I purchased a cast iron thermostat housing from a model A car company but it weighed over 5 lbs. I took careful measurements and made a new one from billet aluminum. A 160 degree thermostat is installed.
5. Air Filter. A K&N air filter is mounted behind the engine and attached to one of the coolant hoses. I figured a little bit of heat going thru the carb couldn't hurt.

I have a few questions:
1. Oil Pressure. The first time we ran the engine, the wimpy 0-100 psi gauge showed between 20-30 psi. After replacing the head gasket and running again, it shows zero. I assume it actually has something like 2-3 psi of pressure when running, but I would like to find a more suitable gauge. Am I looking for a 0-5 gauge, or a 0-30 gauge? Is 20 psi an impossible reading?
2. Spark Plugs. I am using Champion REM40E spark plugs, fed by a Slick 4201 Magneto. The custom ignition harness was made by Maggie Ignition Systems, and works great. I gapped the plugs the same as if they were installed on a small Continental, around .019". Is this too tight? Where are people running their plugs?
3. Propeller. The Corben plans call for a 72x48" prop. I believe that is shorter than, but the same pitch as Pietenpols use. Does anyone have any thoughts as to using a 72 or 74"x48 prop? Also, ideas where a custom prop could be sourced?
4. Cam gear. We are also planning to replace the phenolic cam gear with a metal one. I have found bronze and aluminum gears available. Is anyone running a metal cam gear? Is there a preference between aluminum and bronze?
5. Timing. The Pietenpol manual calls for 28 degrees BTC. Is this about right? The magneto has 25 degrees of lag with the impulse coupling, so it starts somewhere around 3 degrees BTC.

The next steps before we run the engine again include to pull the oil pan and take a look around. I am especially curious as to whether it has babbit or inserted bearings. The rest of the airplane is due some attention, a new cowling will be fabricated, and all of the fabric will be replaced. We hope to bring it and my Aircamper to Brodhead in '29 for the 100th anniversary of Pietenpol and Corben designs.

[taildrags]

Some very interesting and useful ideas here. I'm not a Model A engine guy but the ideas are useful nevertheless.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

[Richard Roller]

I'm glad to see you are making progress.

Your questions.
1. 34KP has a 0 to 30 psi gauge. It'll show 15 psi at start up, I use Valvoline 20w50 detergent oil. By the time I taxi out and take off it'll show 5 to 10 psi and then drops off to showing 0 psi in flight. I'd love to find a 20 psi gauge. If you find one you like, let me know.

2. We gapped .016 to .019.

3. Before the crash I had a 76 inch prop. I. Believe 44 inch pitch. Ground clearance might be the issue. Culver propellers makes Piet props for model A's. Wings of History prop shop in California (they took over the Ole Fahlin prop works, who made my original prop) told me they would make me a prop. By the way, I'm considering have a 42 inch pitch on the next prop for 34KP.

4. I have an aluminum cam gear. 23 plus years. No problems.

5. I try to time between 28 to 30 degrees. When I had a mag it had 25° of lag and there was no problem starting.

I hope this helps. Could you post dimensions of the Honda radiator?

[geresh]

Thank you for the replies Richard. The radiator is a cheap foreign made job, but no leaks yet. It measures 14.5” wide x 16.5” tall x 2.75” deep.

https://www.alloyworksplus.com/products ... ra-b16-b18