Pietenpol-List: Happy Day!

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Original Posted By: "McNarry, John"
Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol 'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood, thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty cool. I don't know how much time I am going to have to work on it every day, so... anyone have any suggestions for keeping wood that isnt being used safe and warp/bug/damage free?RichardWeb Developer, http://www.autoeurope.comHomepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder__________ ... __________

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Original Posted By:> rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com (Richard DeCosta)

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Original Posted By: Alan Swanson
Richard,Congratulations! Start building! You will love it. I am still in withdrawals each day because there is no longer a project in the garage to build on when I have a few spare minutes. Going flying requires at least two hours of spare time. Building on the other hand is something I can enjoy with only 10-15 min spare time. Not to worry however, I am seriously looking at another "antique" designed with the real world builder in mind --Steve Wittman's W-10 Tailwind. It seems to be the "Pietenpol" high performance airplane designs. Wonder how well they knew each other.Steve E.On Thursday, January 22, 1998 6:36 AM, Richard DeCosta [SMTP:rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com] wrote:> Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue> from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol> 'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood,> thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty> cool.>> I don't know how much time I am going to have to work on it every> day, so... anyone have any suggestions for keeping wood that isnt> being used safe and warp/bug/damage free?>> Richard> ----------------------------------------> Web Developer, http://www.autoeurope.com> Homepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder__________ ... __________

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Original Posted By: rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com (Richard DeCosta)
Congratulations! I, too recently received my initial supply of wood fromWick's. After inventorying and inspecting the shipment, I put all thelumber back in the crate, with the top screwed on, where it will staycovered, dry, and bug free until I need it. As I need pieces, I take itfrom the roof of the garage, and let it sit for a week or two in my shop inthe basement until I need it. My feeling is that it will stabilize in thattime to a safe working moisture level. Bernie Pietenpol lived just 100miles south of here, so I figure if it worked for him, it should be OK forme as well.Good luck in your project.Al Swanson>Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue >from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol >'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood, >thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty >cool. >>I don't know how much time I am going to have to work on it every >day, so... anyone have any suggestions for keeping wood that isnt >being used safe and warp/bug/damage free?>>Richard>---------------------------------------->Web Developer, http://www.autoeurope.com>Homepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder>>________ ... __________

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Original Posted By: Ian Holland
> You should get a dust protector for your keyboard so you don't get> all that spruce sawdust down in it! Enjoy the building and thanks> for all those pictures!Actually, my computer and keyboard are in a different room from where I'll be building. Thank's for the advice, though!I've got another question for the group: I have the spruce, nails, glue and most of the tools I need to complete most of the ribs, but I have yet to buy the plywood for the gussets. Wicks aircraft lists a 4'x8' piece starting at $100, and the local lumber yard at $14! There must be a major difference in quality there. Could someone tell me what to look for in the plywood I use. At Wicks they have for 3 to 7 ply, 45% and 90% and the prices are high. Do I need to bite the bullet, or can I get the $14 sheet and still be safe?Thanks all!Richard> > Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue> > from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol> > 'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood,> > thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty> > cool.> > > >> Richard, ________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: Ted Brousseau
Richard DeCosta wrote:> > Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue> from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol> 'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood,> thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty> cool.> >Richard,You should get a dust protector for your keyboard so you don't get allthat spruce sawdust down in it! Enjoy the building and thanks for allthose pictures!Mike List________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By:> Richard DeCosta
Richard, I don't think that you want to go the route of non- certifiedplywood! If you have not already done so, PLEASE join the EAA. They have awhole bunch of books and articles that get to the meat of your question.Besides the safety aspect, there is the question of resale value. You willwant to have available the parts/material list that went into the bird.anyone considering a future purchase will want to know that before theycommit to a purchase.In Canada, we have to follow the guidelines in "Acceptable Methods,Techniques and Practices, Aircraft Inspection and repair" By Jeppeson andobtained from the local community college.EAA publications that I have found really helpful are:"Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook""A Giuide to the Construction Standards for the Amateur Builder""FireWall Forward" by Tony Bingalis"Aircraft welding" (They also do some first class videos)These are just some of the books that I have read (and reread). Part of thefun of building your own aircraft is the immense opportunity to learn. Youmay get away with some shortcuts, but you may also have many hours of workdissallowed at inspection time.All the best in 1998, and congradulations on making the big decision tostart. -=Ian=-

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Original Posted By: Domenico Bellissimo
Richard DeCosta wrote:> > > You should get a dust protector for your keyboard so you don't get> > all that spruce sawdust down in it! Enjoy the building and thanks> > for all those pictures!> > Actually, my computer and keyboard are in a different room from where> I'll be building. Thank's for the advice, though!> > I've got another question for the group: I have the spruce, nails,> glue and most of the tools I need to complete most of the ribs, but I> have yet to buy the plywood for the gussets. Wicks aircraft lists a> 4'x8' piece starting at $100, and the local lumber yard at $14! There> must be a major difference in quality there. Could someone tell me> what to look for in the plywood I use. At Wicks they have for 3 to 7> ply, 45% and 90% and the prices are high. Do I need to bite the> bullet, or can I get the $14 sheet and still be safe?> > Thanks all!> > Richard> > > > Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue> > > from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol> > > 'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood,> > > thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty> > > cool.> > >> > >> > Richard,> Bite the bullet Richard, buy the best. The reason: Water proof glue andthe filler in the $14.00 version is a cheaper grade of wood versus whatshould be the same type of wood as is on the outside, be it birch ormohogany. There has been some discusion in the Piet. group about sandingthe plywood gussets for better adhesion (thereby getting rid of thesheen/oily film caused by the rollers during the manufacturing process),actually I don't like the idea of sanding because it breaks or cuts thefibers. A better way is to take a straight commercially available razorand scrape the surface without marking the gusset (same idea as if youwere planning). However it's your choice, enjoy building.Regards, Domenic/ DCSBell(at)netcom.ca________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: michael list
Richard DeCosta wrote:. Do I need to bite the> bullet, or can I get the $14 sheet and still be safe?> >Richard,The only plywood I have seen at the lumberyard for $14/sheet is 1/8"luan or doorskin. You definitely do not want to use this in yourairplane. It is mostly endgrain material in the middle with a thin skinon both sides. Not strong enough for aircraft use. I built a kayakwith it and the skins actually pulled off of the endgrain material! Bite the bullet and get the good stuff, you will have much peace of mindand find it easier to work with.Mike List________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: michael list[SMTP:mclist(at)ptw.com]
Mike,I have a question about "endgrain material." Do you mean that the grainis perpendicular to the sheet? This seems like a very strange way tomake a plywood lamination. Seems like there would be a lot less wasteusing the standard method of peeling a log into a sheet, resulting inthe more normal plys. If the grain is perpendicular to the sheet, thenby all means, this is not suitable because the sheet is VERY weak. Onlythe thin outer layers will support tension and then only in onedirection (with the grain). I will look more closely the next time Ifind a sheet of plywood with a thick core.I have luan lumberyard material that has 3 equal thickness plys and isof "conventional" construction; i.e. all the layers have the grainrunning parallel to the face with the inner ply turned 90 degrees.It has been good to see more discussion of WHY certian things are badand what to look for.Jim________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: Ed0248(at)aol.com
I have use the luan plywood for building boats. It is a marine plywoodand I have yet to find a void. There are two types of luan and they areboth three ply. One of them is called bendy board which is the one with allthree ply running in the same direction. I was designed to be really flaxable.>Jim Skinner wrote:>> >> Mike,>> >> I have a question about "endgrain material." Do you mean that the grainis perpendicular to the sheet? This seems like a very strange way to makea plywood lamination. Seems like there would be a lot less waste using thestandard method of peeling a log into a sheet, resulting in the more normalplys. If the grain is perpendicular to the sheet, then by all means, thisis not suitable because the sheet is VERY weak. Only the thin outer layerswill an tension and then only in one directi>> >> I have luan lumberyard material that has 3 equal thickness plys and isof "conventional" construction; i.e. all the layers have the grain runningparallel to the face with the inner ply turned 90 degrees.>> >> It has been good to see more discussion of WHY certian things are badand what to look for.>> >> Jim>> >> ---------->>Jim,>Yes, the luan that I have seen and used on a kayak has the thick middle>ply with the grain perpendicular to the face sheets. No good for>airplanes! I haven't seen the type you describe with three equal>thickness plies. What is the sheet thickness? For 1/8" plywood I would>prefer 5 plies, but for 1/16" 3 would be fine. Is it bonded together>with an outdoor grade adhesive and what is the wood type? It sounds>like it might work, but I would run some tests on it for strength in>tension, pull-off of the face sheets, exposure to moisture, weight, how>well does it accept glue and void content. If it passes these and looks>good, and you are comfortable with it, then try it on the smaller>components first. After all, this is part of the beauty of our freedom>in the states to build with alternate materials! And if you do use it,>keep us posted on how it works.>Mike List>>jimsury(at)fbtc.net________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: Jim Sury
Jim Skinner wrote:> > Mike,> > I have a question about "endgrain material." Do you mean that the grain is perpendicularto the sheet? This seems like a very strange way to make a plywoodlamination. Seems like there would be a lot less waste using the standardmethod of peeling a log into a sheet, resulting in the more normal plys. If thegrain is perpendicular to the sheet, then by all means, this is not suitablebecause the sheet is VERY weak. Only the thin outer layers will support tensionand then only in one directi> > I have luan lumberyard material that has 3 equal thickness plys and is of "conventional"construction; i.e. all the layers have the grain running parallelto the face with the inner ply turned 90 degrees.> > It has been good to see more discussion of WHY certian things are bad and whatto look for.> > Jim> > ---------->Jim,Yes, the luan that I have seen and used on a kayak has the thick middleply with the grain perpendicular to the face sheets. No good forairplanes! I haven't seen the type you describe with three equalthickness plies. What is the sheet thickness? For 1/8" plywood I wouldprefer 5 plies, but for 1/16" 3 would be fine. Is it bonded togetherwith an outdoor grade adhesive and what is the wood type? It soundslike it might work, but I would run some tests on it for strength intension, pull-off of the face sheets, exposure to moisture, weight, howwell does it accept glue and void content. If it passes these and looksgood, and you are comfortable with it, then try it on the smallercomponents first. After all, this is part of the beauty of our freedomin the states to build with alternate materials! And if you do use it,keep us posted on how it works.Mike List________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: Wkoucky
> > > You should get a dust protector for your keyboard so you don't get> > all that spruce sawdust down in it! Enjoy the building and thanks> > for all those pictures!> > Actually, my computer and keyboard are in a different room from where > I'll be building. Thank's for the advice, though!> > I've got another question for the group: I have the spruce, nails, > glue and most of the tools I need to complete most of the ribs, but I > have yet to buy the plywood for the gussets. Wicks aircraft lists a > 4'x8' piece starting at $100, and the local lumber yard at $14! There > must be a major difference in quality there. Could someone tell me > what to look for in the plywood I use. At Wicks they have for 3 to 7 > ply, 45% and 90% and the prices are high. Do I need to bite the > bullet, or can I get the $14 sheet and still be safe?> > Thanks all!> > Richard> > > > Well, the day has finally come! I just got my capstrips, nails & glue> > > from Wicks Aircraft Supply! I have officially moved from Pietenpol> > > 'enthusiast' to Pietenpol 'BUILDER'. Whoa. I am looking at the wood,> > > thinking, "This pile of wood will actually FLY someday..." Pretty> > > cool.> > > > > >> > Richard,> ________________________________________________________________________________