Original Posted By: Ted Brousseau
As a "just beginning" builder, the one part of the Pietenpol design that I have been somewhat suspicious of is the fabrication of the control horns from 22 GA. sheet metal. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or tips on forming and welding these relatively complex shapes?---- Begin Included Message -----Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 23:01:47 -0500 (EST)________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Original Posted By: "McNarry, John"
>As a "just beginning" builder, the one part of the Pietenpol design >that I have been somewhat suspicious of is the fabrication of the control >horns from 22 GA. sheet metal. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, ortips >on forming and welding these relatively complex shapes?>Bill- I was tempted to go w/ one piece control horns but after makinga two piece practice version ( I tig welded the edges) I couldn't believe how incredibly strong they were- not to metion how muchlighter they are than the one piece versions. It is worth the workto make em' as shown....not easy, but worth it. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
>As a "just beginning" builder, the one part of the Pietenpol design >that I have been somewhat suspicious of is the fabrication of the control >horns from 22 GA. sheet metal. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, ortips >on forming and welding these relatively complex shapes?>Bill- I was tempted to go w/ one piece control horns but after makinga two piece practice version ( I tig welded the edges) I couldn't believe how incredibly strong they were- not to metion how muchlighter they are than the one piece versions. It is worth the workto make em' as shown....not easy, but worth it. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
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Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsHey folks, Years ago I bought laser-cut metal from someone for controls horns and motor mounts. I recently had a friend weld them up for me, and they suck. Uglyand unsafe. Can anyone tell me where I got them, or an alternative to the welded parts. Thanks.Ron**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvemen ... 0000000001)________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsHey folks, Years ago I bought laser-cut metal from someone for controls horns and motor mounts. I recently had a friend weld them up for me, and they suck. Uglyand unsafe. Can anyone tell me where I got them, or an alternative to the welded parts. Thanks.Ron**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvemen ... 0000000001)________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
you can always make them out of .125 flat stock. Many are done that way, including mine.Gene ----- Original Message -----
you can always make them out of .125 flat stock. Many are done that way, including mine.Gene ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: "Dave Case"
Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsI fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of daysto the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills.I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zincchromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotectedmetal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the woodenspar of the control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to thespar). What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of sprayinglinseed oil or fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keenon seeing corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft(not to mention they are a requirement for controlled flight!). Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsI fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of daysto the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills.I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zincchromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotectedmetal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the woodenspar of the control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to thespar). What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of sprayinglinseed oil or fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keenon seeing corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft(not to mention they are a requirement for controlled flight!). Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: CG Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Larry,First, congrats on making such a nice looking Pietenpol!I think you'll probably be OK, but your CG is slightly aft of mine. Minehas the CG at 19.63" aft of the leading edge with me, full fuel and nopassenger. Adding a 170 lb passenger moves it to 19.68" aft of LE. My wingis 3.75" aft of vertical.Did you include water in the radiator when doing your weight and balance?That will help.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Larry,First, congrats on making such a nice looking Pietenpol!I think you'll probably be OK, but your CG is slightly aft of mine. Minehas the CG at 19.63" aft of the leading edge with me, full fuel and nopassenger. Adding a 170 lb passenger moves it to 19.68" aft of LE. My wingis 3.75" aft of vertical.Did you include water in the radiator when doing your weight and balance?That will help.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Scott,Good question. I put LPS Corrosion prevention spray in mine, spraying itaround inside as well as I could after priming with epoxy primer (which Ialso sprayed inside as well as possible).This brings up a good point to add to your annual condition inspection - tograb and twist each horn to determine if they are rusted through internally.It would be a pain in the butt to replace them once the airplane is flying,but better to find it at inspection than in flight.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Scott,Good question. I put LPS Corrosion prevention spray in mine, spraying itaround inside as well as I could after priming with epoxy primer (which Ialso sprayed inside as well as possible).This brings up a good point to add to your annual condition inspection - tograb and twist each horn to determine if they are rusted through internally.It would be a pain in the butt to replace them once the airplane is flying,but better to find it at inspection than in flight.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsScott,Good question. I put LPS Corrosion prevention spray in mine, spraying itaround inside as well as I could after priming with epoxy primer (which Ialso sprayed inside as well as possible).This brings up a good point to add to your annual condition inspection - tograb and twist each horn to determine if they are rusted through internally.It would be a pain in the butt to replace them once the airplane is flying,but better to find it at inspection than in flight.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsScott,Good question. I put LPS Corrosion prevention spray in mine, spraying itaround inside as well as I could after priming with epoxy primer (which Ialso sprayed inside as well as possible).This brings up a good point to add to your annual condition inspection - tograb and twist each horn to determine if they are rusted through internally.It would be a pain in the butt to replace them once the airplane is flying,but better to find it at inspection than in flight.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: Jim Courtney
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsThanks Jack. Good advice. It is amazing the little things that don't occur toa builder until he actually holds a completed part in his hand. Scott-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsThanks Jack. Good advice. It is amazing the little things that don't occur toa builder until he actually holds a completed part in his hand. Scott-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Original Posted By: Amsafetc
I sprayed zinc chromate inside and sloshed it around....followed by my welder at work welding the metal tab on the piece. He was shockedand amazed when the internal zinc chromate caught on fire and starting spewingnoxious gas at him.I learned about welding/painting sequence from that one.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
I sprayed zinc chromate inside and sloshed it around....followed by my welder at work welding the metal tab on the piece. He was shockedand amazed when the internal zinc chromate caught on fire and starting spewingnoxious gas at him.I learned about welding/painting sequence from that one.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Original Posted By: kevinpurtee
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control hornsKevin. Scary and a good point to make about welding. As I got in to the skillof gas welding my 16 year old was fascinated by the process and quickly becamequite capable at making beautiful fishscale welds using our oxy/acetelyne rig(darn kids!). He moved on to welding galvanized fence rails into snow boardand skateboard rails for his friends. While being impressed by his enthusiasmI became concerned about the possible harmfulness of the fumes when the galvanizedcoating spewed out a whitish dust . Quick research revealed that thedust is zinc and has really no harmful effects if inhaled other than possibleshort term nausea. What did catch my eye was that some of the other coatingson steel like cadmium and certain paints like zinc chromate are horribly toxicwhen they reach their melting point which is well below that of steel. Fullventilation or better yet removal of the coating is a must before hitting thesewith a torch. I remember William Wynn addressing this in his Corvair manualwhen talking about welding the engine.Let's be careful out there. Scott Knowlton. -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control hornsKevin. Scary and a good point to make about welding. As I got in to the skillof gas welding my 16 year old was fascinated by the process and quickly becamequite capable at making beautiful fishscale welds using our oxy/acetelyne rig(darn kids!). He moved on to welding galvanized fence rails into snow boardand skateboard rails for his friends. While being impressed by his enthusiasmI became concerned about the possible harmfulness of the fumes when the galvanizedcoating spewed out a whitish dust . Quick research revealed that thedust is zinc and has really no harmful effects if inhaled other than possibleshort term nausea. What did catch my eye was that some of the other coatingson steel like cadmium and certain paints like zinc chromate are horribly toxicwhen they reach their melting point which is well below that of steel. Fullventilation or better yet removal of the coating is a must before hitting thesewith a torch. I remember William Wynn addressing this in his Corvair manualwhen talking about welding the engine.Let's be careful out there. Scott Knowlton. -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns
Original Posted By: shad bell
Re Kevins post about welding zinc chromated horns.You might want to read this;http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelin ... n.htmlZinc oxide is used topicaly in skin creams of all sorts, but;http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C2997.htmlClif You still need to be careful when working with zinc which is the coating used during the galvanizing process and does contain trace amounts of lead. The one you have to watch out for is welding stainless, the process liberates chrome which is toxic so you want to be really careful when arc welding stainless. By all means when in doubt consult the MSDS. John________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
Re Kevins post about welding zinc chromated horns.You might want to read this;http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelin ... n.htmlZinc oxide is used topicaly in skin creams of all sorts, but;http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C2997.htmlClif You still need to be careful when working with zinc which is the coating used during the galvanizing process and does contain trace amounts of lead. The one you have to watch out for is welding stainless, the process liberates chrome which is toxic so you want to be really careful when arc welding stainless. By all means when in doubt consult the MSDS. John________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Mitsubishi engine run up with prop!
Original Posted By: shad bell
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Speaking of shock cord, I am up in Poplar Grove this weekend replacing mine. I need to add somes sort of "dams" onto the top of the axle, in order to keep the bungees from working their way too close to the wood legs and getting pinched. I was down to 50% worn through on one side, only after about 10 hours of operation! Yikes!Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shock Cordm>While on the subject of bungee chord, I have a mate who is ordering a pile of it o im going to buy mine now. Im building the straight axle and am wondering what pprox length the chords need to be?Thank you in advance.Scotty--------amworth, Australiauilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start uselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.ead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 2#352502-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:--= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!--= --> http://forums.matronics.com--========================-= - List Contribution Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support!-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution-= ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Speaking of shock cord, I am up in Poplar Grove this weekend replacing mine. I need to add somes sort of "dams" onto the top of the axle, in order to keep the bungees from working their way too close to the wood legs and getting pinched. I was down to 50% worn through on one side, only after about 10 hours of operation! Yikes!Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shock Cordm>While on the subject of bungee chord, I have a mate who is ordering a pile of it o im going to buy mine now. Im building the straight axle and am wondering what pprox length the chords need to be?Thank you in advance.Scotty--------amworth, Australiauilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start uselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.ead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 2#352502-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:--= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!--= --> http://forums.matronics.com--========================-= - List Contribution Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support!-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution-= ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot
Original Posted By: Amsafetc
Hi Scott,I actually cut small pieces, fit, and welded those little windows closed.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.I fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of days to the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills. I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zincchromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotected metal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the wooden spar of the control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to the spar). What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of spraying linseed oil or fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keen on seeing corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft (not to mention they are a requirement for controlled flight!). Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot
Hi Scott,I actually cut small pieces, fit, and welded those little windows closed.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.I fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of days to the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills. I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zincchromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotected metal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the wooden spar of the control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to the spar). What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of spraying linseed oil or fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keen on seeing corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft (not to mention they are a requirement for controlled flight!). Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: steve(at)wotelectronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsHi Scott, I actually cut small pieces, fit, and welded those little windows closed. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.I fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of daysto the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills.I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zinc chromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotectedmetal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the wooden spar ofthe control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to the spar).What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of spraying linseed oilor fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keen on seeing corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft (not tomention they are a requirement for controlled flight!). Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ==========-List Email Forum -enpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... =========p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -_blank>http://forums.matronics.com==========p; - List Contribution Web Site -p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution== ... ______Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 09:57:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsHi Scott, I actually cut small pieces, fit, and welded those little windows closed. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.I fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of daysto the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills.I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zinc chromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotectedmetal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the wooden spar ofthe control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to the spar).What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of spraying linseed oilor fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keen on seeing corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft (not tomention they are a requirement for controlled flight!). Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ==========-List Email Forum -enpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... =========p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -_blank>http://forums.matronics.com==========p; - List Contribution Web Site -p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution== ... ______Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 09:57:20 -0400
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
YesSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 18, 2011, at 4:43 PM, "dwilson" wrote:> > During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib stitching.Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to learn how totie these knots during Broadhead?> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 601#352601> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
YesSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 18, 2011, at 4:43 PM, "dwilson" wrote:> > During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib stitching.Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to learn how totie these knots during Broadhead?> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 601#352601> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot
Original Posted By: "dwilson"
I learned how to tie the knot from the Ray Stitts video. Covered the wing on a PA20/22 using his knot. I have forgotten how now, but still have the video and will re-educate myself when it comes time to ribstitch the Piet. Get yourself a video. C----- Original Message -----
I learned how to tie the knot from the Ray Stitts video. Covered the wing on a PA20/22 using his knot. I have forgotten how now, but still have the video and will re-educate myself when it comes time to ribstitch the Piet. Get yourself a video. C----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsWow! Now there's some fine welding. I don't know if I'd have the dexterity orfine skills to do that yet but what a great idea. Thanks Dan Scott -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control hornsWow! Now there's some fine welding. I don't know if I'd have the dexterity orfine skills to do that yet but what a great idea. Thanks Dan Scott -----Original Message-----