Original Posted By: Graham Hansen
don't you think it's fun to call an engine a motor? --NO (__!__) ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: Graham Hansen
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater>He explained that an "engine" converts heat energy>into mechanical energy by burning a fuel. A "motor", on>the other hand, converts electrical or kinetic energy into>mechanical energy. Some examples: the electric motor;>the hydraulic motor; the water turbine, or water wheel.>In my physics class we learned heat energy is kinetic energy, I think thetwo can mostly be used interchangeably.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater>He explained that an "engine" converts heat energy>into mechanical energy by burning a fuel. A "motor", on>the other hand, converts electrical or kinetic energy into>mechanical energy. Some examples: the electric motor;>the hydraulic motor; the water turbine, or water wheel.>In my physics class we learned heat energy is kinetic energy, I think thetwo can mostly be used interchangeably.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By:> D.J.H.
Away back when I was attending a technical schooltaking aircraft maintenance and aeronautical engineer-ing, we had an instructor who was an absolute per-fectionist in all things. I well remember being corrected by him when I calledan "engine" a "motor"--- even though that was about fifty years ago!He explained that an "engine" converts heat energyinto mechanical energy by burning a fuel. A "motor", onthe other hand, converts electrical or kinetic energy intomechanical energy. Some examples: the electric motor;the hydraulic motor; the water turbine, or water wheel.Anyway, this is the distinction he made and thereafter I was careful to distinguish between the two (especiallyin his presence!). Interesting.The small, two stroke engine used as a starter ENGINEis an interesting concept. It would permit one to start anaircraft engine safely when assistance is not available.It eliminates the need for a heavy electrical system andbattery. The use of small starting engines on larger ones isnot a new idea. I remember them being used to start the diesel engines of farm tractors (Caterpillar type).
Away back when I was attending a technical schooltaking aircraft maintenance and aeronautical engineer-ing, we had an instructor who was an absolute per-fectionist in all things. I well remember being corrected by him when I calledan "engine" a "motor"--- even though that was about fifty years ago!He explained that an "engine" converts heat energyinto mechanical energy by burning a fuel. A "motor", onthe other hand, converts electrical or kinetic energy intomechanical energy. Some examples: the electric motor;the hydraulic motor; the water turbine, or water wheel.Anyway, this is the distinction he made and thereafter I was careful to distinguish between the two (especiallyin his presence!). Interesting.The small, two stroke engine used as a starter ENGINEis an interesting concept. It would permit one to start anaircraft engine safely when assistance is not available.It eliminates the need for a heavy electrical system andbattery. The use of small starting engines on larger ones isnot a new idea. I remember them being used to start the diesel engines of farm tractors (Caterpillar type).
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: LanhamOS
I'm a shop teacher , and my students have called them engines , motors mills what does it matter as long as the rest of no what they are doing________________________________________________________________________________
I'm a shop teacher , and my students have called them engines , motors mills what does it matter as long as the rest of no what they are doing________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: stephen
I find the discussion abut engines, motors, and weed eaters fascinating..In high school shop class, our instructor always insisted on "engines"... I surfed the Dawn Patrol site to see what was involved with the starter.The A engine is much different from the VW.. I can not see how you coulddevelop the necessary gearing , a la chains, on the magneto end, or the enginepuylley driving the water pump.. Am not sure about the compression ratios.. This discussion reminds me of the ME 262 of WWlII fame. This beautifultwin jet fighter used lawn mower engines for starters.. There are photos ofthe mechanics pulling the cord.. starter was on the front of the engine. Also, nothing wrong with pulling the prop..Dr. O. Lanham, Aviation Historian________________________________________________________________________________
I find the discussion abut engines, motors, and weed eaters fascinating..In high school shop class, our instructor always insisted on "engines"... I surfed the Dawn Patrol site to see what was involved with the starter.The A engine is much different from the VW.. I can not see how you coulddevelop the necessary gearing , a la chains, on the magneto end, or the enginepuylley driving the water pump.. Am not sure about the compression ratios.. This discussion reminds me of the ME 262 of WWlII fame. This beautifultwin jet fighter used lawn mower engines for starters.. There are photos ofthe mechanics pulling the cord.. starter was on the front of the engine. Also, nothing wrong with pulling the prop..Dr. O. Lanham, Aviation Historian________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: stephen
I find the discussion interesting about how to identify the power. Like otherson this net, I was schooled inthe use of "engine".. "Motor" was a nono. Isurfed the web for Dawn Patrol, and found the infor about the chain saw engineused as a starter.I doubt whether there is enough torque for rotate theengine, let alone the problem of finding where to put the drive unit. Chainsseem complicated... I read about a Volksplane project in the United Kingdom,and the builder used a chain to drive both magnetos. An extra spark plug holewas bored into the heads. The ME 262Jet Fighter of the Luftwaffe in WW!! used lawn mower engines to start theturbines..There is a photo a mechanic pulling the starter cord, like we do with a mowertoday. Why not prop?Dr. O. Lanham________________________________________________________________________________
I find the discussion interesting about how to identify the power. Like otherson this net, I was schooled inthe use of "engine".. "Motor" was a nono. Isurfed the web for Dawn Patrol, and found the infor about the chain saw engineused as a starter.I doubt whether there is enough torque for rotate theengine, let alone the problem of finding where to put the drive unit. Chainsseem complicated... I read about a Volksplane project in the United Kingdom,and the builder used a chain to drive both magnetos. An extra spark plug holewas bored into the heads. The ME 262Jet Fighter of the Luftwaffe in WW!! used lawn mower engines to start theturbines..There is a photo a mechanic pulling the starter cord, like we do with a mowertoday. Why not prop?Dr. O. Lanham________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: David
Hand proping is definetly a skill I intend to learn,I've never done it. Ihave read where it is considered dangerous. The prudent measure of tyingdown the tail with rope seems bothersome. The clean simplicity of thekickstarter on my motorcycle is something I enjoy,and I'm proud of my skillat useing it(500 cc single) BUT It can't chop my head off either. I'm liklyto change my mind on the need of a starter if I gain enough confidenceCheers Steve Yahn>I find the discussion interesting about how to identify the power. Like others>on this net, I was schooled inthe use of "engine".. "Motor" was a nono. I>surfed the web for Dawn Patrol, and found the infor about the chain saw engine>used as a starter.I doubt whether there is enough torque for rotate the>engine, let alone the problem of finding where to put the drive unit. Chains>seem complicated... I read about a Volksplane project in the United Kingdom,>and the builder used a chain to drive both magnetos. An extra spark plug hole>was bored into the heads. The ME 262>Jet Fighter of the Luftwaffe in WW!! used lawn mower engines to start the>turbines..>There is a photo a mechanic pulling the starter cord, like we do with a mower>today.> Why not prop?>Dr. O. Lanham>>________________________________________________________________________________
Hand proping is definetly a skill I intend to learn,I've never done it. Ihave read where it is considered dangerous. The prudent measure of tyingdown the tail with rope seems bothersome. The clean simplicity of thekickstarter on my motorcycle is something I enjoy,and I'm proud of my skillat useing it(500 cc single) BUT It can't chop my head off either. I'm liklyto change my mind on the need of a starter if I gain enough confidenceCheers Steve Yahn>I find the discussion interesting about how to identify the power. Like others>on this net, I was schooled inthe use of "engine".. "Motor" was a nono. I>surfed the web for Dawn Patrol, and found the infor about the chain saw engine>used as a starter.I doubt whether there is enough torque for rotate the>engine, let alone the problem of finding where to put the drive unit. Chains>seem complicated... I read about a Volksplane project in the United Kingdom,>and the builder used a chain to drive both magnetos. An extra spark plug hole>was bored into the heads. The ME 262>Jet Fighter of the Luftwaffe in WW!! used lawn mower engines to start the>turbines..>There is a photo a mechanic pulling the starter cord, like we do with a mower>today.> Why not prop?>Dr. O. Lanham>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: Graham Hansen
-----Original Message-----
-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By:> David
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: Brad Schultz
Hi: It caught my eye that you signed your E-mail as Aviation Historian. I have been considering becoming a curator for an Aviation Museum that deals with the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan. It would make a very interesting career change. I have been volenteering my services there for some time now and the collection has grown to the point that it needs a full time staff member. Any ideas on which hoops to jump through would be appreciated.John McNarry________________________________________________________________________________
Hi: It caught my eye that you signed your E-mail as Aviation Historian. I have been considering becoming a curator for an Aviation Museum that deals with the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan. It would make a very interesting career change. I have been volenteering my services there for some time now and the collection has grown to the point that it needs a full time staff member. Any ideas on which hoops to jump through would be appreciated.John McNarry________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: stephen
Hi JohnI believe you may have mixed me up with Dr. O. Lanham. His E-mail adress isLanhamOS(at)aol.com I know he signs his name as Aircraft Historian. I,alas, am merely a poor Machinist. well,almost poor.I hope this helps. Cheers,Steve "Weedeater" Yahn>Hi: It caught my eye that you signed your E-mail as Aviation >Historian. I have been considering becoming a curator for an >Aviation Museum that deals with the British Commonwealth Air Training >Plan. It would make a very interesting career change. I have been >volenteering my services there for some time now and the collection >has grown to the point that it needs a full time staff member. Any >ideas on which hoops to jump through would be appreciated.>>John McNarry>>________________________________________________________________________________
Hi JohnI believe you may have mixed me up with Dr. O. Lanham. His E-mail adress isLanhamOS(at)aol.com I know he signs his name as Aircraft Historian. I,alas, am merely a poor Machinist. well,almost poor.I hope this helps. Cheers,Steve "Weedeater" Yahn>Hi: It caught my eye that you signed your E-mail as Aviation >Historian. I have been considering becoming a curator for an >Aviation Museum that deals with the British Commonwealth Air Training >Plan. It would make a very interesting career change. I have been >volenteering my services there for some time now and the collection >has grown to the point that it needs a full time staff member. Any >ideas on which hoops to jump through would be appreciated.>>John McNarry>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: Ted Brousseau
>Hand proping is definetly a skill I intend to learn,I've never done it. I>have read where it is considered dangerous. So is walking across the road. Takes caution and common sense.>The prudent measure of tying down the tail with rope seems bothersome.Woops. I take back the above statement. Hand proping for you (as long asyou profess the above) will be dangerous.Ted Brousseau/APFnfn00979(at)gator.naples.netSunny SW Florida________________________________________________________________________________
>Hand proping is definetly a skill I intend to learn,I've never done it. I>have read where it is considered dangerous. So is walking across the road. Takes caution and common sense.>The prudent measure of tying down the tail with rope seems bothersome.Woops. I take back the above statement. Hand proping for you (as long asyou profess the above) will be dangerous.Ted Brousseau/APFnfn00979(at)gator.naples.netSunny SW Florida________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: William Conway
A suggestion for any who want to experience the "manly thrill" of handpropping: 1. Get someone with experience to teach you how. 2. Practice on your airplane WITH THE SPARK PLUGS REMOVED. There won'tbe any compression, but there won't be any chance of the engine startingunexpectedly and hurting you. 3. Have someone there to watch...there's safety in numbers in casesomething goes Tango Uniform. 4. A handy device I've used is a length of rope tied to a handy-dandyimmovable object...fence, truck, fire plug, etc. tie the rope to the tailwheel bracket with a slip knot, leaving a tail long enough to reach thecockpit. After the engine is started and you are safely ensconced in thecockpit, a good stiff tug will/should untie the knot, leaving you unfettered. 5. Another trick is to take two small chocks and tie them together sothat they can go infront of and behind a wheel. Only tie one side. Anotherpiece of rope/cord tied to this connector rope and the free end looped intothe cockpit. When you are mounted, it is an easy task to remove your ownchocks. 6. When propping, after the engine starts, walk forward (away from theairplane) five feet, turn and walk to a wing tip, and then walk down thetrailing edge to the cockpit. 7. Remember: safety is YOUR responsibility. You can lead a drink to thehorse, but you can't make him water. (Is that right?) 8. I know of only ONE person who survived being struck in the head by aprop, and that happened in the twenties, with a slow-turning engine. It tookhim several years to regain most of his faculties. I've sen several funeralnotices of others less lucky. You cant talk about a thrilling experience ifyou aren't alive after it's over. 9. Don't let me dampen your spirits. ENJOY THE DAY!Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
A suggestion for any who want to experience the "manly thrill" of handpropping: 1. Get someone with experience to teach you how. 2. Practice on your airplane WITH THE SPARK PLUGS REMOVED. There won'tbe any compression, but there won't be any chance of the engine startingunexpectedly and hurting you. 3. Have someone there to watch...there's safety in numbers in casesomething goes Tango Uniform. 4. A handy device I've used is a length of rope tied to a handy-dandyimmovable object...fence, truck, fire plug, etc. tie the rope to the tailwheel bracket with a slip knot, leaving a tail long enough to reach thecockpit. After the engine is started and you are safely ensconced in thecockpit, a good stiff tug will/should untie the knot, leaving you unfettered. 5. Another trick is to take two small chocks and tie them together sothat they can go infront of and behind a wheel. Only tie one side. Anotherpiece of rope/cord tied to this connector rope and the free end looped intothe cockpit. When you are mounted, it is an easy task to remove your ownchocks. 6. When propping, after the engine starts, walk forward (away from theairplane) five feet, turn and walk to a wing tip, and then walk down thetrailing edge to the cockpit. 7. Remember: safety is YOUR responsibility. You can lead a drink to thehorse, but you can't make him water. (Is that right?) 8. I know of only ONE person who survived being struck in the head by aprop, and that happened in the twenties, with a slow-turning engine. It tookhim several years to regain most of his faculties. I've sen several funeralnotices of others less lucky. You cant talk about a thrilling experience ifyou aren't alive after it's over. 9. Don't let me dampen your spirits. ENJOY THE DAY!Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: TLC62770
> > don't you think it's fun to call an engine a motor? --NO (__!__) ________________________________________________________________________________
> > don't you think it's fun to call an engine a motor? --NO (__!__) ________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: weedeater
Original Posted By:> Graham Hansen
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > -----Original Message-----
> Re: weedeater
Original Posted By: Jim Skinner
> Subject: Re: weedeater> > > >He explained that an "engine" converts heat energy> >into mechanical energy by burning a fuel. A "motor", on> >the other hand, converts electrical or kinetic energy into> >mechanical energy. Some examples: the electric motor;> >the hydraulic motor; the water turbine, or water wheel.> >> In my physics class we learned heat energy is kinetic energy, I thinkthe> two can mostly be used interchangeably.True.I don't think he was concerned about the molecular level, but was using the burning of a fuel to produce heat/kinetic energy as the distinguishing feature of thedevice called an "engine".I suppose he was "splitting hairs", so to speak. But Ihave always had an great respect for the man who meticulously built a number of miniature (he gave meheck for calling them "models") steam-powered loco-motives, a 1909 Bleriot aeroplane replica, a SopwithPup replica (rotary engine) and a DeHavilland Humming-bird replica powered by a Continental A-40. He was agreat inspirational force for his students, and his namewas Stan Green.The "Weedeater" has really generated a discussion,hasn't it? ________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Re: weedeater> > > >He explained that an "engine" converts heat energy> >into mechanical energy by burning a fuel. A "motor", on> >the other hand, converts electrical or kinetic energy into> >mechanical energy. Some examples: the electric motor;> >the hydraulic motor; the water turbine, or water wheel.> >> In my physics class we learned heat energy is kinetic energy, I thinkthe> two can mostly be used interchangeably.True.I don't think he was concerned about the molecular level, but was using the burning of a fuel to produce heat/kinetic energy as the distinguishing feature of thedevice called an "engine".I suppose he was "splitting hairs", so to speak. But Ihave always had an great respect for the man who meticulously built a number of miniature (he gave meheck for calling them "models") steam-powered loco-motives, a 1909 Bleriot aeroplane replica, a SopwithPup replica (rotary engine) and a DeHavilland Humming-bird replica powered by a Continental A-40. He was agreat inspirational force for his students, and his namewas Stan Green.The "Weedeater" has really generated a discussion,hasn't it? ________________________________________________________________________________