Pietenpol-List: 140 hp Corvair?

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Pietenpol-List: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 140 hp Corvair?>I have been planning all along to use a 110 hp Corvair in my Piet,>which I found in Pennsylvania (a 15 hour drive from my house).>However, my father, who has connections in the auto repair business,>recently told me he knows of a 140 hp Corvair engine in Maine (where I>live) that I can get for a song.>>I know 110 is prefered for a Piet, but can a 140 be made to work, or>should I get my travelling music...?>>Richard>>p.s. any calandars left? :)>>>==>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder>"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There>is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would>not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson>>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
I have been planning all along to use a 110 hp Corvair in my Piet,which I found in Pennsylvania (a 15 hour drive from my house).However, my father, who has connections in the auto repair business,recently told me he knows of a 140 hp Corvair engine in Maine (where Ilive) that I can get for a song. I know 110 is prefered for a Piet, but can a 140 be made to work, orshould I get my travelling music...?Richardp.s. any calandars left? :)==http://www.wrld.com/w3builder"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
If I am not mistaken the 140 horse motor is the one with the bigger valvesthat has a problem with dropping valve seats. Much less prefferred foraircraft use.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Hi Richard,I still have a lot to learn about Corvair engines, but here's my take on the subject:I think the 140 is distinguishable from the 110 primarily in its breathing capability; the 140 is set up to operate with 4 carbs and the valves are quitea bit larger. The whole valve train is different than on the 110, but displacement is the same. The use of the 140 on aircraft is not without precendent: Richard Finch, in his book "How to Keep Your Corvair Alive" showsthe installation of a 140 with a Rinker PSRU (I think it was a 140, it was certainly an engine with the 140 vavle train) in his own Cessna (I think it wasa 152). That engine was later installed in a Piet. I seem to recall that there was at least one other person on this list who was intending to use a 140. It has been done many times in the past.That said, I think most would discourage the use of this engine on a Piet. The140 has a reputation for dropping valve seats when abused (operated at high temperatures for extended periods). Although this situation is not as likely in our application as it would be on a racing egine operated at high revs, it would be catastrophic. The 140 also has a reputation for requiring more maintanence and attention to keep it tuned, and I'm told that cores are often found to be abused since they generally operate at higher temperatures. Partsare not as easy to find, and they are usually more expensive. The 140 reachesits peak torque and hp output at higher revs than the 110 (much higher than will be used in our application unless you install a PSRU). And unless you intend to use multiple carbs, you will detract from the redeeming feature of this engine (breathing capacity). And remember, BHP recommended the 95 hp engine (optimal torque curve for direct drive).Still, if it can be had for a song, I say get the engine and use it as your guinea pig. Many parts are interchangeable, and you'll lear a lot from tearingdown a practice engine. Also, the 140 is much more valuable to a Corvair tinkerer than a 110, so you could probably find a good trade with a CORSA member.On a related note, I spent Saturday at the Great Western Fan Belt Toss, a hugeCorvair show and swap meet. There were countless Corvairs in the show and parking lot. Must have been over a hundred cylinder heads and several whole engines for sale (no 110s) at the swap meet. Larry Shapiro, from Larry's Corvair shop here in So. Cal. remarked that he has over 150 Corvair engine cores on his lot. Good rebuildable cores (some still running) go for about $200. I met several other individuals who would sell cores for less.--Peter________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Mike Cunningham
Richard,Stick with the 110 and put the 95 HP cam into it. Check out the 140 and buyit if it's free and not more than $100. Remove the heads and keep for aspare. You never know when a set of 110 heads will show up. They could alsobe purchased from Clark's Corvair Parts in Massachusets (they have aweb-site). I have both the 110 and 140, and a friend gave me a set of 110heads. Everything else is the same except the 140 crankshaft is nitrided andis a little superior to the 110. I made my own castings to close the engineand support the shaft. One of these days I'll get around to sending yousome pictures I promised you. I've been out of touch from this discussiongroup for a while. I was working in Halifax for 3 months and when I got backI had Pietenpol finshing fever. Well, it's all done except I have nopropeller. Have been trying to carve one with the routing machine I madefrom plans but have run into some problems. Jack Watson has taken the prop.home to try and salvage it. Once I hang the prop. I can call for finalInspection. Everything else is done. I'm in a good position (time wise) fromnow till end of July to fly off my initial restricted time, then bring it toBrodhead. The Canadian Piet. owners in southern Ontario and one fromRochester, NY (if he gets his completed) are planning to go the Brodheadtogether in a gaggle (possibly 6-7) for the 70th Anniversary. It shouldprove to be a wonderful experience.Regards for now,Dom. Bellissimoiginal Message-----________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By:> Raffaele Bellissimo [SMTP:rbelliss(at)yesic.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?>Dom,>> Would you be willing to scan photos of your Covair engine,>installation, and cowling and attach them to a message to this>discussion group. I am very interested in the Corvair conversion and I>really appreciate the information you have provided to this group so>far.>> If you can provide any other suggestions regarding how to select>the correct Corvair engine for conversion, i.e. which cars and years are>best, that would be great. For example, I know a guy who has a Corvair>coupe, a station wagon, and a truck-like vehicle (I don't know the names>of these models). Do you have any suggestions as to which one would be>best to go after? I know that the coupe has a standard transmission.>These cars have been sitting in his yard for many years. He says that he>will sell them, but he is pretty nervous about letting me go into his>yard, so I have very little information about the cars or the engines.>He will not sell the engines separately. Any suggestions?>> You said in your attached message, "I made my own castings to>close the engine and support the shaft." Please elaborate on what this>means. I don't think that there are very many builders that are casting>their own engine parts. Thank you.>> Ed Larsen - Mapleton, UT>> -----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair? I don't know anyone that can hand prop a corvair. Atleast Jack Watson and I couldn't. ---------I wonder why you can't hand prop your corvair engine??I have the140 hp vair mill with a direct drive 3 blade warpdrive,while on the teststand,with base timming set to 0 deg.it will start easily.I removed the vacadvance unit,which leaves a handy arm sticking out of the dist. housing,towhich you can attach a cable to the cockpit.This will allow retarding theignition timming ,which is a must for handproping,after start up,the basetimming can be set to the desired setting. Doug CGCGJ________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?>PLEASE DO NOT send attachments. Send them to Richard and he will postthem.>>Steve e.>>>Dom,>> Would you be willing to scan photos of your Covair engine,>installation, and cowling and attach them to a message to this>discussion group. I am very interested in the Corvair conversion and I>really appreciate the information you have provided to this group so>far.>>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?>>>Brodhead. The Canadian Piet. owners in southern Ontario and one from>>Rochester, NY (if he gets his completed) are planning to go the Brodhead>>And who might that be? I live near Geneseo, NY. There is a Piet>at the Perry-Warsaw airport that is owned by one of the CFI's that>flies out of there. I haven't seen it yet - I am flying with the>other CFI.>>Dave>Retsof, NY and hoping for decent weather this weekend so he can>finally solo.....>>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo [SMTP:rbelliss(at)yesic.com]
Dom, Would you be willing to scan photos of your Covair engine,installation, and cowling and attach them to a message to thisdiscussion group. I am very interested in the Corvair conversion and Ireally appreciate the information you have provided to this group sofar. If you can provide any other suggestions regarding how to selectthe correct Corvair engine for conversion, i.e. which cars and years arebest, that would be great. For example, I know a guy who has a Corvaircoupe, a station wagon, and a truck-like vehicle (I don't know the namesof these models). Do you have any suggestions as to which one would bebest to go after? I know that the coupe has a standard transmission.These cars have been sitting in his yard for many years. He says that hewill sell them, but he is pretty nervous about letting me go into hisyard, so I have very little information about the cars or the engines.He will not sell the engines separately. Any suggestions? You said in your attached message, "I made my own castings toclose the engine and support the shaft." Please elaborate on what thismeans. I don't think that there are very many builders that are castingtheir own engine parts. Thank you. Ed Larsen - Mapleton, UT
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: "Larsen, Ed"
PLEASE DO NOT send attachments. Send them to Richard and he will post them.Steve e.Dom, Would you be willing to scan photos of your Covair engine,installation, and cowling and attach them to a message to thisdiscussion group. I am very interested in the Corvair conversion and Ireally appreciate the information you have provided to this group sofar.________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu [SMTP:steve(at)byu.edu]
Steve, Will you elaborate on this attachment thing? Do you mean Richard DeCosta and his web site? Please advise how this should be done and howto access this information once it has been posted. Thanks. Sorry, Idid not realize that it was taboo to send attachments.Ed Larsen - Mapleton, UT
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
-----Original Message-----Larsen, EdSent: Friday, November 13, 1998 3:27 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?Steve,Will you elaborate on this attachment thing?Those people that have slow connections attachments clog the lineunbearably. Do you mean Richard DeCosta and his web site?Yup.Please advise how this should be done and howto access this information once it has been posted.Send the files (and a box of oreos) to Richard and ask him to to post em onhis web site.Then check http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtml Thanks. Sorry, Idid not realize that it was taboo to send attachments.No problem.Steve E.________________________________________________________________________________
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> RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Craig Lawler
Anyone wishing to post images for the group, email them to me atrdecosta(at)wrld.com (NOT AirCamper(at)Yahoo.com), and I will post them onmy Website for all to download.As far as New England Piet builders goes, I know of four: Theres me inScarborough, Maine (next to Portland), Everett Millett in Windham,Maine (10 miles northeast of Portland), Gary Price at the HamptonAirfield in Hampton, New Hampshire, and Don Mains in New Hampshire(his finished A-Piet is still at the Limington airport, tho).Richard---steve(at)byu.edu wrote:>> > > -----Original Message-----> Larsen, Ed> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 3:27 PM> To: Pietenpol Discussion> Subject: RE: 140 hp Corvair?> > > Steve,> > Will you elaborate on this attachment thing?> > Those people that have slow connections attachments clog the line> unbearably.> > Do you mean Richard De> Costa and his web site?> > Yup.> > Please advise how this should be done and how> to access this information once it has been posted.> > Send the files (and a box of oreos) to Richard and ask him to topost em on> his web site.> Then check http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtml> > Thanks. Sorry, I> did not realize that it was taboo to send attachments.> > No problem.> > Steve E.> > ==http://www.wrld.com/w3builder"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: duprey(at)mailexcite.com
Thanks to all those who contributed to answering my 140hp Corvairquestion. I have decided to stick with my original 110. I willdefinately be visiting the Corvair athority on my way back from Penn!==http://www.wrld.com/w3builder"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
>Brodhead. The Canadian Piet. owners in southern Ontario and one from>Rochester, NY (if he gets his completed) are planning to go the BrodheadAnd who might that be? I live near Geneseo, NY. There is a Pietat the Perry-Warsaw airport that is owned by one of the CFI's thatflies out of there. I haven't seen it yet - I am flying with theother CFI.DaveRetsof, NY and hoping for decent weather this weekend so he canfinally solo.....________________________________________________________________________________
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> RE: 140 hp Corvair?

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
> Dom. Bellissimo>-----Original Message----->From: Larsen, Ed >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:10 PM>Subject: RE: 140 hp Corvair?>>> I don't know anyone that can hand prop a corvair. At>least Jack Watson and I couldn't.>>---------I wonder why you can't hand prop your corvair engine??I have the>140 hp vair mill with a direct drive 3 blade warpdrive,while on the test>stand,with base timming set to 0 deg.it will start easily.I removed the vac>advance unit,which leaves a handy arm sticking out of the dist. housing,to>which you can attach a cable to the cockpit.This will allow retarding the>ignition timming ,which is a must for handproping,after start up,the base>timming can be set to the desired setting.> Doug CGCGJ>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
That's for sure Steve, I had no intension of bogging down the system. ThanksDom.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: Greg Yotz
Hi Ed,> If you can provide any other suggestions regarding how to select>the correct Corvair engine for conversion, i.e. which cars and years are>best, that would be great. For example, I know a guy who has a Corvair>coupe, a station wagon, and a truck-like vehicle (I don't know the names>of these models). Do you have any suggestions as to which one would be>best to go after? I know that the coupe has a standard transmission.For aircraft use, a 110 hp engine from between 1965 and 1969 is generally preferred. Although the 1964 engine had the same displacement and hp, the outside diameter of the cylinder jugs was a bit smaller, so replacement parts are a bit harder to locate. There are other minor differences.You will find an identification number stamped on each engine on the day it wasassembled. This number contains the date and a code for the plant in which itwas assembled and a code for the engine configuration. For example, T1215RH means that it was built at the Tonowanda plant on Dec. 15 and it is a 110hp ona powerglide tranny. Half of the Corvairs built between 1965 and 1967 have this engine suffix code, and it is ideal for our application. Other suffix codes refer to combinations of accessories such as air conditioning, emmissioncontrols, manual transmission, etc.The number is stamped on the top surface of the crankcase near the place wherethe two halves are joined. It can be seen, under a thick coat of black goo, without removing any parts. It's on the same surface that the air blower is attached. If you find the code, you can post it to the Corvair Center Forum: http://www.loop.com/~yujisilva/ , and the friendly folks there will tell you everything you want to know about the engine. Here are suffix codes for 95-110hp engines from 1965 to 1969:RA,RD,RE,RF,RG,RH,RJ,RK,RR,RS,RU,RV,RW,RX,QO,QP,QS,AC,AD,AEIf you can, I would advise sticking to an engine from a powerglide car, as thishas less potential for abuse. The truck (Greenbrier or Rampside) is more likely to have a 95 or 80 hp engine, since the torque curve is more suited to truck applications. Don't know what to expect in the wagon (Lakewood). Both ofthese are most likely early model vehicles (pre-'65).--Peter________________________________________________________________________________
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> > 140 hp Corvair?

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
> Subject: Re: 140 hp Corvair?>>> >If I am not mistaken the 140 horse motor is the one with the>bigger valves> >that has a problem with dropping valve seats. Much less>prefferred for> >aircraft use.> >-----Original Message-----> >From: Richard DeCosta > >To: Pietenpol Discussion > >Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 6:28 AM> >Subject: 140 hp Corvair?> >> >> >>I have been planning all along to use a 110 hp Corvair in my>Piet,> >>which I found in Pennsylvania (a 15 hour drive from my house).> >>However, my father, who has connections in the auto repair>business,> >>recently told me he knows of a 140 hp Corvair engine in Maine>(where I> >>live) that I can get for a song.> >>> >>I know 110 is prefered for a Piet, but can a 140 be made to>work, or> >>should I get my travelling music...?> >>> >>Richard> >>> >>p.s. any calandars left? :)> >>> >>> >>> >>==> >>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder> >>"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There> >>is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would> >>not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>________________________________________________________________________________
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> RE: 140 hp Corvair?

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Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
> Subject: RE: 140 hp Corvair?>>> I don't know anyone that can hand prop a corvair. At> least Jack Watson and I couldn't.>> ---------I wonder why you can't hand prop your corvair engine??I have the> 140 hp vair mill with a direct drive 3 blade warpdrive,while on the test> stand,with base timming set to 0 deg.it will start easily.I removed the vac> advance unit,which leaves a handy arm sticking out of the dist. housing,to> which you can attach a cable to the cockpit.This will allow retarding the> ignition timming ,which is a must for handproping,after start up,the base> timming can be set to the desired setting.> Doug CGCGJ________________________________________________________________________________
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> > RE: 140 hp Corvair?

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: TLC62770(at)aol.com
> > > > Dom. Bellissimo> >-----Original Message-----> >From: Larsen, Ed > >To: Pietenpol Discussion > >Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:10 PM> >Subject: RE: 140 hp Corvair?> >> >> > I don't know anyone that can hand prop a corvair. At> >least Jack Watson and I couldn't.> >> >---------I wonder why you can't hand prop your corvair engine??I havethe> >140 hp vair mill with a direct drive 3 blade warpdrive,while on the test> >stand,with base timming set to 0 deg.it will start easily.I removed thevac> >advance unit,which leaves a handy arm sticking out of the dist.housing,to> >which you can attach a cable to the cockpit.This will allow retardingthe> >ignition timming ,which is a must for handproping,after start up,thebase> >timming can be set to the desired setting.> > Doug CGCGJ> >________________________________________________________________________________
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