Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ian Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff>Hey Group:>Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using>Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop>specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading>edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.>climb or cruise pitch).>Keep building!>CJ Beck / Wichita>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Hey Group:Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs. climb or cruise pitch).Keep building!CJ Beck / Wichita________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Joe & Marian Beck
I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator I alsoput together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110 corvairand it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static tests yeilded2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. Ihaven't flown it yet.My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to medium speedtesting on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before I reached theactive runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross wind I wasexperiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it down since Idon't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report wascalculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did come inheavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank and a lotof wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.Regards,Domenic Bellissimo-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:>> Joe & Marian Beck
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff>Raffaele:>>I'm curious about the carving duplicator you mention (built from plans).>Would you give a little more info on it (source of plans, cost,>effectiveness,procedure, etc.). What type of material did you use for the>prop? Thanks.>>Mark Boynton>Phoenix, AZ>>>>> I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator I>also>> put together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110>corvair>> and it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static tests>yeilded>> 2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. I>> haven't flown it yet.>> My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to medium speed>> testing on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before I reached>the>> active runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross wind I>was>> experiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it down since>I>> don't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report was>> calculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did come in>> heavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,>> Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank and a>lot>> of wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.>> Regards,>> Domenic Bellissimo>> -----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> Joe & Marian Beck
Raffaele:I'm curious about the carving duplicator you mention (built from plans).Would you give a little more info on it (source of plans, cost,effectiveness,procedure, etc.). What type of material did you use for theprop? Thanks.Mark BoyntonPhoenix, AZ> I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator Ialso> put together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110corvair> and it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static testsyeilded> 2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. I> haven't flown it yet.> My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to medium speed> testing on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before I reachedthe> active runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross wind Iwas> experiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it down sinceI> don't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report was> calculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did come in> heavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,> Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank and alot> of wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.> Regards,> Domenic Bellissimo> -----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Mark,Hi! I'm using my brother's computer and internet provider. His name isRaffaele and mine is Domenico. The prop carving machine I built from plansis advetized in sport Aviation:Kite Industries, Dept. A-5, P.O. Box 2566, Glendale, AZ 85311-2566.The cost is still $15.00 and says this can be done for $50.00, but the addis more than 25 years old and the wording haas never been changed. Iestimate I spent about $200. I purchased new plywood (use 3/4"). I usedexpensice pillow bearings for the carriage, he specified wood blocks with ahole in it (not very accurate I don't think?). I had a steel cylinder andplate welded together to mount the Prop. master and blank (two required). Inthe middle of the cylinder at the plate a large 1/2 bolt was welded. Thethread should protrude above the height of the cylinder so you can tightendown both the master and the blank and the height of the cylinder should bebelow the height of any prop. you will be carving. After welding it wastrued square on a lathe. I used a router for the carving (1 H.P.), but youreally need 2 H.P. I actually burned a brand new one, which was replacedbecause it was only 2 days old. The cutter was a one inch ball cutteravailable at special order from an Italian manufacturer. I think Vermontalso makes them. For thte follower I used a 1" ball bearing which matchesthe conteur of the cutter. If you can't find a one inch don't worry, use a3/4" cutter. It will be better for the router anyway. The ball bearing wasepoxied into the end of a shaft of the same diameter. of course you have tohave the end of the shaft machined out to accept the ball shape. Makeabsolutely sure the router can't move on you or you will end up with askewed prop. It can be saved but will be hard to balance.To tell you the truth, I'm going to redesign from router use to dado blade.It will go much faster in roughing out a blank and save me a router. Place.015 to .020 tape on the Master to protect it from the pressure of the ballbearing or the person you borrowed the master from may ask you to buy himanother. The presure will dent the finish. You only want to use the machineto rough out only. The balance .015 to .020 thou. left to carve on the propis there for you to finish by hand. You'll need to draw 10 stations on eachside in the same locations on each side. You will need templates for eachindividual station. You then sand and graduate from 80 to 600 grit and keepchecking each station with the templates. You should also read a prop.carving book available from the EAA. Before you get to the last couple ofthousands of an inch you'll want to balance the prop. from side to side. OurRAA chapter has a prop. balancing fixture. If you ask around I'll bet youcan find one. It's about 4 1/2 feet high. Has two round bars on each side,supported by a frame structure all the way to the base. Tthe base has fouradjustable feet. This is so you can Level it with a spirit level. this isvery important. When I prepared my blank I inserted a steel cylinder insidethe prop. hole from the base of the prop. to about half way up the hole andequal to the height of the prop. hub. This insert will mate steel to steeland prevent any wood burn which is evident on many props. The base of theprop. also has countersunk holes to pick up "Lycoming type" (can't rememberwhat they are called) studs (for a lack of a better word). These "studs" arewhat the proppeller bolts screw into. The radial stress/work is performed bythese studs and not the prop. bolts. The bolts need only hold the prop. ontothe hub. I hope I have been of some help, and not too winded. Of all thework done on the Piet. the prop. was the most challanging mentally. It hasto be done right or else...Regards,Domenic-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> mboynton(at)excite.com
Domenic:Thanks for the information. I live in Arizona and just happen to work inGlendale. I've talked with Gary McGill, the seller of the plans for theprop duplicating machine. Nice enough guy, but he says he is kind of out ofdoing that kind of stuff anymore. He said he could sell me a copy of theplans, but that he is building a home right now and I'd have to try and givehim a call before dropping by. The problem is, I haven't been able to catchhim at home, and for whatever reason he hasn't returned my calls. A coupleof questions for you - do the plans he sells come as measured drawings, and,do you still happen to have the plans you bought. If you do still havethem, would you be willing to part with them? I'm getting the feeling I'mnot going to get very far with Gary McGill.> Mark,> Hi! I'm using my brother's computer and internet provider. His name is> Raffaele and mine is Domenico. The prop carving machine I built fromplans> is advetized in sport Aviation:> Kite Industries, Dept. A-5, P.O. Box 2566, Glendale, AZ 85311-2566.> The cost is still $15.00 and says this can be done for $50.00, but theadd> is more than 25 years old and the wording haas never been changed. I> estimate I spent about $200. I purchased new plywood (use 3/4"). I used> expensice pillow bearings for the carriage, he specified wood blocks witha> hole in it (not very accurate I don't think?). I had a steel cylinder and> plate welded together to mount the Prop. master and blank (two required).In> the middle of the cylinder at the plate a large 1/2 bolt was welded. The> thread should protrude above the height of the cylinder so you cantighten> down both the master and the blank and the height of the cylinder shouldbe> below the height of any prop. you will be carving. After welding it was> trued square on a lathe. I used a router for the carving (1 H.P.), butyou> really need 2 H.P. I actually burned a brand new one, which was replaced> because it was only 2 days old. The cutter was a one inch ball cutter> available at special order from an Italian manufacturer. I think Vermont> also makes them. For thte follower I used a 1" ball bearing which matches> the conteur of the cutter. If you can't find a one inch don't worry, usea> 3/4" cutter. It will be better for the router anyway. The ball bearingwas> epoxied into the end of a shaft of the same diameter. of course you haveto> have the end of the shaft machined out to accept the ball shape. Make> absolutely sure the router can't move on you or you will end up with a> skewed prop. It can be saved but will be hard to balance.> To tell you the truth, I'm going to redesign from router use to dadoblade.> It will go much faster in roughing out a blank and save me a router.Place> .015 to .020 tape on the Master to protect it from the pressure of theball> bearing or the person you borrowed the master from may ask you to buy him> another. The presure will dent the finish. You only want to use themachine> to rough out only. The balance .015 to .020 thou. left to carve on theprop> is there for you to finish by hand. You'll need to draw 10 stations oneach> side in the same locations on each side. You will need templates for each> individual station. You then sand and graduate from 80 to 600 grit andkeep> checking each station with the templates. You should also read a prop.> carving book available from the EAA. Before you get to the last couple of> thousands of an inch you'll want to balance the prop. from side to side.Our> RAA chapter has a prop. balancing fixture. If you ask around I'll bet you> can find one. It's about 4 1/2 feet high. Has two round bars on eachside,> supported by a frame structure all the way to the base. Tthe base hasfour> adjustable feet. This is so you can Level it with a spirit level. this is> very important. When I prepared my blank I inserted a steel cylinderinside> the prop. hole from the base of the prop. to about half way up the holeand> equal to the height of the prop. hub. This insert will mate steel tosteel> and prevent any wood burn which is evident on many props. The base of the> prop. also has countersunk holes to pick up "Lycoming type" (can'tremember> what they are called) studs (for a lack of a better word). These "studs"are> what the proppeller bolts screw into. The radial stress/work is performedby> these studs and not the prop. bolts. The bolts need only hold the prop.onto> the hub. I hope I have been of some help, and not too winded. Of all the> work done on the Piet. the prop. was the most challanging mentally. Ithas> to be done right or else...> Regards,> > Domenic> -----Original Message-----
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> Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
> Subject: Re: prop stuff> > > >Hey Group:> >Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using> >Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop> >specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading> >edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.> >climb or cruise pitch).> >Keep building!> >CJ Beck / Wichita> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
matronics
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>> Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
>> Subject: Re: prop stuff>>>>>> >Hey Group:>> >Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using>> >Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop>> >specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading>> >edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.>> >climb or cruise pitch).>> >Keep building!>> >CJ Beck / Wichita>> >>>>>________________________________________________________________________________
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> Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> >> Joe & Marian Beck
> Subject: Re: prop stuff> > > >Raffaele:> >> >I'm curious about the carving duplicator you mention (built from plans).> >Would you give a little more info on it (source of plans, cost,> >effectiveness,procedure, etc.). What type of material did you use forthe> >prop? Thanks.> >> >Mark Boynton> >Phoenix, AZ> >> >> >> >> I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator I> >also> >> put together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110> >corvair> >> and it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static tests> >yeilded> >> 2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. I> >> haven't flown it yet.> >> My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to mediumspeed> >> testing on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before Ireached> >the> >> active runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross windI> >was> >> experiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it downsince> >I> >> don't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report was> >> calculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did comein> >> heavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,> >> Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank anda> >lot> >> of wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.> >> Regards,> >> Domenic Bellissimo> >> -----Original Message-----
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> >> Re: prop stuff

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
> >> Subject: Re: prop stuff> >>> >>> >> >Hey Group:> >> >Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going.Using> >> >Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop> >> >specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading> >> >edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail.(vs.> >> >climb or cruise pitch).> >> >Keep building!> >> >CJ Beck / Wichita> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________________> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
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