Original Posted By: << Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: Ian Holland
Subject: Re: gap seals Will your Piet really do 100 or would 70 MPH tape have been just as good? Mike Bell (NoPietYet)>>> Aint no 70 MPH tape. Mike B (Piet N687MB ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: gap seals Will your Piet really do 100 or would 70 MPH tape have been just as good? Mike Bell (NoPietYet)>>> Aint no 70 MPH tape. Mike B (Piet N687MB ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: Mike Bell
-----Original Message-----
-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
I know that gap seals hve been discussed before, but I just want to ad a bit moreto it. At Broadhead I had discussed my takeoff problems with a few of you.If I wasn't careful and didn't add power slowly, while pinning the stick foward,the plane would want to fly before it had the speed. This would cause theplane to want to stall at the ground. I thought this might be the way a Pietflew.After telling my story to the old timers sitting around after all had left, theytold me not to look at moving the gear aft as I was thinking but to gap sealthe elevators. I have piano hinge on the ailerions so I hadn't thought muchabout the elevators.After locating some duct tape at Brodhead I taped up the elevators. Right awayit flew like a completely diffrent plane.It is much easier to handle on takeoff, tail comes right up and the stick is muchlighter. On landing it is more responsive. In cruise it adds about 2 mph.My only question in all of this is, what to replace the duct tape with for a permanentaddition? My first thought is a closed cell foam that we use at workas an expansion joint in concrete. Next might be strips of leather or a mylartape.Any suggestions?Dick N.________________________________________________________________________________
I know that gap seals hve been discussed before, but I just want to ad a bit moreto it. At Broadhead I had discussed my takeoff problems with a few of you.If I wasn't careful and didn't add power slowly, while pinning the stick foward,the plane would want to fly before it had the speed. This would cause theplane to want to stall at the ground. I thought this might be the way a Pietflew.After telling my story to the old timers sitting around after all had left, theytold me not to look at moving the gear aft as I was thinking but to gap sealthe elevators. I have piano hinge on the ailerions so I hadn't thought muchabout the elevators.After locating some duct tape at Brodhead I taped up the elevators. Right awayit flew like a completely diffrent plane.It is much easier to handle on takeoff, tail comes right up and the stick is muchlighter. On landing it is more responsive. In cruise it adds about 2 mph.My only question in all of this is, what to replace the duct tape with for a permanentaddition? My first thought is a closed cell foam that we use at workas an expansion joint in concrete. Next might be strips of leather or a mylartape.Any suggestions?Dick N.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsDick,I made empenage gap seals for my plane while in the construction phase, therefore I can't compare the performance to being without the empenage gap seals. Here is an area where I varied from the plans just a little, but I didn't want to endorse the change till I had some flight time on the plane. Curse me all you purists !! We all know how important it is to seal the gaps at theailerons. I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps witha strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting. Now, I just didn't like the big gaps at the hinges of the elevators (flippers) and rudder. I used the same method I used when building model planes,I call it a 'Double Monocoat Hinge'. I used Vi Kappler aluminum hinges, and after building and fitting the control surfaces, before covering, I glued a triangle piece of bulsa wood to the trailing edge of the horiz & vert stabs, andthe leading edge of the flippers and rudder, leaving a gap of 1/4" between thetips of these triangle pieces, in line with and the same diameter as the hingepins. I then covered all the flight surfaces in the conventional manner, assembled the flight surfaces with the pins, then glued a fabric strip down eachslope of the triangle piece, across the gap, then up the other triangle piece,and trimmed it. I did this on the top and the bottom, so two layers of fabric bridge the 1/4" gap, right on the hinge line.Advantages: 1) It seals any air from leaking at the hinge, when the flight surface is deflected, therefore less deflection is needed, thus reducing drag.2) It is a secondary attachment of the flight surfaces, in the event of a hinge failure, and keeps the hinge pins from working out, even if the cotter keyis gone.3) It prevents any sticks or stuff from becoming lodged in the hinge area, when operating out of unimproved strips.4) Hawks don't have any gaps in their tail.5) I included a picture.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsDick,I made empenage gap seals for my plane while in the construction phase, therefore I can't compare the performance to being without the empenage gap seals. Here is an area where I varied from the plans just a little, but I didn't want to endorse the change till I had some flight time on the plane. Curse me all you purists !! We all know how important it is to seal the gaps at theailerons. I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps witha strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting. Now, I just didn't like the big gaps at the hinges of the elevators (flippers) and rudder. I used the same method I used when building model planes,I call it a 'Double Monocoat Hinge'. I used Vi Kappler aluminum hinges, and after building and fitting the control surfaces, before covering, I glued a triangle piece of bulsa wood to the trailing edge of the horiz & vert stabs, andthe leading edge of the flippers and rudder, leaving a gap of 1/4" between thetips of these triangle pieces, in line with and the same diameter as the hingepins. I then covered all the flight surfaces in the conventional manner, assembled the flight surfaces with the pins, then glued a fabric strip down eachslope of the triangle piece, across the gap, then up the other triangle piece,and trimmed it. I did this on the top and the bottom, so two layers of fabric bridge the 1/4" gap, right on the hinge line.Advantages: 1) It seals any air from leaking at the hinge, when the flight surface is deflected, therefore less deflection is needed, thus reducing drag.2) It is a secondary attachment of the flight surfaces, in the event of a hinge failure, and keeps the hinge pins from working out, even if the cotter keyis gone.3) It prevents any sticks or stuff from becoming lodged in the hinge area, when operating out of unimproved strips.4) Hawks don't have any gaps in their tail.5) I included a picture.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Dick Navratil
Hi DickOur gliders use a stiff milar taped to the hor stab & vert stab.My glider has closed cell foan glued to both surfaces with contact cement.Dale----- Original Message -----
Hi DickOur gliders use a stiff milar taped to the hor stab & vert stab.My glider has closed cell foan glued to both surfaces with contact cement.Dale----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
RE: Pietenpol-List: Options decisions
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: DONALD COOLEY
You could do piano hinge on the elevators. You would have to change the dimensionson the rear of the stab and the front of the elev to be able to trim offmaterial, so it would get full up and down motion. Other than that it wouldprobably be fine.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----
You could do piano hinge on the elevators. You would have to change the dimensionson the rear of the stab and the front of the elev to be able to trim offmaterial, so it would get full up and down motion. Other than that it wouldprobably be fine.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsIn a message dated 8/22/2005 12:40:09 AM Central Standard Time, adonjr(at)sbcglobal.net writes: I was wondering.....how about using piano hinges for elevators? The only real drawback I can see is that it wouldn't look "authentic". Maybe function dictates form? I plan using piano hinges for the ailerons, so this seemsnot too out of line. Comments?Don,I've never seen piano hinges used on the empenage. I suggest you contact Vi Kappler, and purchase his cast aluminum hinges. Many Pietenpols out there, including mine, use his empenage hinges. He worked with Bernard Pietenpol foryears. If you give him a call, have a bunch of other questions ready to ask him, while you have him on the phone.Vitalis Kapler1033 Forest Hill Dr. WSRochester, MN 55902phone: 507-288-3322________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsIn a message dated 8/22/2005 12:40:09 AM Central Standard Time, adonjr(at)sbcglobal.net writes: I was wondering.....how about using piano hinges for elevators? The only real drawback I can see is that it wouldn't look "authentic". Maybe function dictates form? I plan using piano hinges for the ailerons, so this seemsnot too out of line. Comments?Don,I've never seen piano hinges used on the empenage. I suggest you contact Vi Kappler, and purchase his cast aluminum hinges. Many Pietenpols out there, including mine, use his empenage hinges. He worked with Bernard Pietenpol foryears. If you give him a call, have a bunch of other questions ready to ask him, while you have him on the phone.Vitalis Kapler1033 Forest Hill Dr. WSRochester, MN 55902phone: 507-288-3322________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil Pressure
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil PressurePieters,We have the engine running, finally. Had to cut it off as there is no oil pressure. I filled the oil outlet to the gauge with oil but nothing happened. Any comments. Corky in only 100 degrees today________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:49:48 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil Pressure
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil PressurePieters,We have the engine running, finally. Had to cut it off as there is no oil pressure. I filled the oil outlet to the gauge with oil but nothing happened. Any comments. Corky in only 100 degrees today________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:49:48 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil Pressure
Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil Pressure
Original Posted By: "Graham Hansen"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil PressureIn a message dated 8/23/2005 6:51:37 PM Central Standard Time, jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com writes:Corky,Sounds like your oil pump is not primed. Try raising the tail above yourhead for a few seconds. I used to fly a Champ that required this if it satfor awhile.TakeCare,-john-I've used this method too, and it was successful. On a previous occassion, after having had the fuselage in a level position for doing gear mod, I tried filling a dry oil pump by filling it through the oil pressure line. It took aleast a half hour for the oil in the homemade funnel to slowly make it's way in. That was also successful. It's just much easier to just raise the tail, and allow the oil in the screen filter to prime the pump.Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil PressureIn a message dated 8/23/2005 6:51:37 PM Central Standard Time, jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com writes:Corky,Sounds like your oil pump is not primed. Try raising the tail above yourhead for a few seconds. I used to fly a Champ that required this if it satfor awhile.TakeCare,-john-I've used this method too, and it was successful. On a previous occassion, after having had the fuselage in a level position for doing gear mod, I tried filling a dry oil pump by filling it through the oil pressure line. It took aleast a half hour for the oil in the homemade funnel to slowly make it's way in. That was also successful. It's just much easier to just raise the tail, and allow the oil in the screen filter to prime the pump.Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Oil Pressure
Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
Corky,Try this method to prime the oil pump:1. Remove the oil temperature bulb from the oil screen.2. Shoot some fresh oil into the oil screen with an oil squirt can. Be generous!3. Re-install oil temperature bulb.4. Start engine and you should get an oil pressure indication within 30 seconds.If not, try connecting an oil pressure gauge to the O/P outlet with a shortline (sometimes there is an indication lag with a long line).I have used this method for over fifty years on small Continentals when raisingthe tail didn't produce results.Let me know how it works for you.Cheers,Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________
Corky,Try this method to prime the oil pump:1. Remove the oil temperature bulb from the oil screen.2. Shoot some fresh oil into the oil screen with an oil squirt can. Be generous!3. Re-install oil temperature bulb.4. Start engine and you should get an oil pressure indication within 30 seconds.If not, try connecting an oil pressure gauge to the O/P outlet with a shortline (sometimes there is an indication lag with a long line).I have used this method for over fifty years on small Continentals when raisingthe tail didn't produce results.Let me know how it works for you.Cheers,Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsI used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps witha strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting.ChuckGood morning one and all,I'm going to seal the gaps, the tail is in the silver stage and we are getting ready to mount the tail permanently to the fuse and install our gap seals. I read through most of the archives on the subject.Do I need to pre-shrink the 3" fabric strip before I use the method that Chuck used. We did not put little triangle strips to fair in the gaps closer.It seems like the sun would shrink the fabric 10% over time. As usual, all advice and dumb looks are welcome, thanks in advance.Wanna-be low and slow flyer,Max DavisNX101XW (Reserved)________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsI used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps witha strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting.ChuckGood morning one and all,I'm going to seal the gaps, the tail is in the silver stage and we are getting ready to mount the tail permanently to the fuse and install our gap seals. I read through most of the archives on the subject.Do I need to pre-shrink the 3" fabric strip before I use the method that Chuck used. We did not put little triangle strips to fair in the gaps closer.It seems like the sun would shrink the fabric 10% over time. As usual, all advice and dumb looks are welcome, thanks in advance.Wanna-be low and slow flyer,Max DavisNX101XW (Reserved)________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsIn a message dated 8/30/2006 9:02:41 AM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd(at)aol.com writes:I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps witha strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting.ChuckGood morning one and all,I'm going to seal the gaps, the tail is in the silver stage and we are getting ready to mount the tail permanently to the fuse and install our gap seals.I read through most of the archives on the subject.Do I need to pre-shrink the 3" fabric strip before I use the method that Chuck used. We did not put little triangle strips to fair in the gaps closer.It seems like the sun would shrink the fabric 10% over time. As usual, all advice and dumb looks are welcome, thanks in advance.Wanna-be low and slow flyer,Max DavisNX101XW (Reserved)Hey Mad Dawg !!Great to hear you are making progress !!I did my ailerons just like you did. For the Empenage, I used Hard Balsa triangle strips, between the Vi Kapler hinges - before covering. These triangleswere glued on the Trailing Edge of the Horizontal Stab, and the Leading Edge of the Flippers. Then cover all the surfaces in the conventional manner. Then assemble the control surface hinges (after they have been test fitted, andcleared of all fouling conditions), and then apply the gap seal. This kept thegap at a uniform 1/4", and this is the only place the fabric actually bends. A strip of fabric down one side, across the gap, and up the other side of the triangle. Do this on the Top and the Bottom. Trim the fabric at the top, so none of the fabric actually is in the slipstream. Don't pre- shrink the fabric bridging the gap. Wait till it is installed on the top and bottom, thenshrink it with a hot detail iron. The sun will never heat the fabric up enoughto shrink it. Kind of hard to describe. I have details of how I did this on my web site : http://nx770cg.com/Unique.htmlChuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap sealsIn a message dated 8/30/2006 9:02:41 AM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd(at)aol.com writes:I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps witha strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting.ChuckGood morning one and all,I'm going to seal the gaps, the tail is in the silver stage and we are getting ready to mount the tail permanently to the fuse and install our gap seals.I read through most of the archives on the subject.Do I need to pre-shrink the 3" fabric strip before I use the method that Chuck used. We did not put little triangle strips to fair in the gaps closer.It seems like the sun would shrink the fabric 10% over time. As usual, all advice and dumb looks are welcome, thanks in advance.Wanna-be low and slow flyer,Max DavisNX101XW (Reserved)Hey Mad Dawg !!Great to hear you are making progress !!I did my ailerons just like you did. For the Empenage, I used Hard Balsa triangle strips, between the Vi Kapler hinges - before covering. These triangleswere glued on the Trailing Edge of the Horizontal Stab, and the Leading Edge of the Flippers. Then cover all the surfaces in the conventional manner. Then assemble the control surface hinges (after they have been test fitted, andcleared of all fouling conditions), and then apply the gap seal. This kept thegap at a uniform 1/4", and this is the only place the fabric actually bends. A strip of fabric down one side, across the gap, and up the other side of the triangle. Do this on the Top and the Bottom. Trim the fabric at the top, so none of the fabric actually is in the slipstream. Don't pre- shrink the fabric bridging the gap. Wait till it is installed on the top and bottom, thenshrink it with a hot detail iron. The sun will never heat the fabric up enoughto shrink it. Kind of hard to describe. I have details of how I did this on my web site : http://nx770cg.com/Unique.htmlChuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Hey all,Need to do the gap seals on the tail and ailerons. Wanted to hear whatpeople did that worked. The first time around I used nylon self-adhesiverip stop tape in an upside down "U". Have read about carpet tape. Hasanyone used foam weatherstripping??Douwe________________________________________________________________________________
Hey all,Need to do the gap seals on the tail and ailerons. Wanted to hear whatpeople did that worked. The first time around I used nylon self-adhesiverip stop tape in an upside down "U". Have read about carpet tape. Hasanyone used foam weatherstripping??Douwe________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
Piano hinge on the ailerons, no gap seals on the tail.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----
Piano hinge on the ailerons, no gap seals on the tail.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By:
RE: Pietenpol-List: Plywood repairs
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
AC 43.13 (formerly CAM 18) is THE BIBLE for aircraft repairs.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message-----
AC 43.13 (formerly CAM 18) is THE BIBLE for aircraft repairs.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I'm adding rounded balsa leading edges to the rudder and elevators-won't totally seal the gap but will make it much smaller--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
I'm adding rounded balsa leading edges to the rudder and elevators-won't totally seal the gap but will make it much smaller--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Original Posted By: Amsafetyc
Okay, John, here's your first response that falls within your three acceptableanswers:Is anyone bringing or considering bringing and flying RC aircraft at Brodhead?"No." Having said that, most of the responses indicated reasons why it probably wouldn'tbe a good idea. I would interpret those responses as "No" as well.One thing I know for sure, is that when I finally manage to complete my Piet, andfly it all the way to Brodhead, I would be more than a little peeved if itwere to be damaged by an errant model aircraft smashing into it. I can understandsomeone bringing a model Pietenpol to the event, just for display. But actuallyflying model aircraft at an active airport loaded with antique and handcraftedaircraft, that's another story. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Okay, John, here's your first response that falls within your three acceptableanswers:Is anyone bringing or considering bringing and flying RC aircraft at Brodhead?"No." Having said that, most of the responses indicated reasons why it probably wouldn'tbe a good idea. I would interpret those responses as "No" as well.One thing I know for sure, is that when I finally manage to complete my Piet, andfly it all the way to Brodhead, I would be more than a little peeved if itwere to be damaged by an errant model aircraft smashing into it. I can understandsomeone bringing a model Pietenpol to the event, just for display. But actuallyflying model aircraft at an active airport loaded with antique and handcraftedaircraft, that's another story. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Thanks Bill Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 1, 2012, at 12:15 PM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > Okay, John, here's your first response that falls within your three acceptableanswers:> > Is anyone bringing or considering bringing and flying RC aircraft at Brodhead?> > "No." > > Having said that, most of the responses indicated reasons why it probably wouldn'tbe a good idea. I would interpret those responses as "No" as well.> One thing I know for sure, is that when I finally manage to complete my Piet,and fly it all the way to Brodhead, I would be more than a little peeved if itwere to be damaged by an errant model aircraft smashing into it. I can understandsomeone bringing a model Pietenpol to the event, just for display. Butactually flying model aircraft at an active airport loaded with antique and handcraftedaircraft, that's another story. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.> > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 987#376987> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Thanks Bill Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 1, 2012, at 12:15 PM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > Okay, John, here's your first response that falls within your three acceptableanswers:> > Is anyone bringing or considering bringing and flying RC aircraft at Brodhead?> > "No." > > Having said that, most of the responses indicated reasons why it probably wouldn'tbe a good idea. I would interpret those responses as "No" as well.> One thing I know for sure, is that when I finally manage to complete my Piet,and fly it all the way to Brodhead, I would be more than a little peeved if itwere to be damaged by an errant model aircraft smashing into it. I can understandsomeone bringing a model Pietenpol to the event, just for display. Butactually flying model aircraft at an active airport loaded with antique and handcraftedaircraft, that's another story. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.> > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 987#376987> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood repairs
Original Posted By: "tools"
Hey John,If I can get all the parts there, I'd be happy to find a little corner somewhere(hell, even a baseball field in town if necessary) and get him on the handleof a control line model. It'll be different than anything he's done before.Something about the smell of castor oil and a "real" engine usually gets a kidgoing. I've taught hundreds of kids, and so has my son, so it'll be fun, easy and no stress.Give me a shout, 423 580 1383 when you're there!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood repairs
Hey John,If I can get all the parts there, I'd be happy to find a little corner somewhere(hell, even a baseball field in town if necessary) and get him on the handleof a control line model. It'll be different than anything he's done before.Something about the smell of castor oil and a "real" engine usually gets a kidgoing. I've taught hundreds of kids, and so has my son, so it'll be fun, easy and no stress.Give me a shout, 423 580 1383 when you're there!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood repairs
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
If you can put a thinner piece on each side of the crack, that would work. TEDIOUSbut also good, remove the cracked area, taper the edges to 12 to one taperand scarf in a new piece.Need more info to be more specific.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
If you can put a thinner piece on each side of the crack, that would work. TEDIOUSbut also good, remove the cracked area, taper the edges to 12 to one taperand scarf in a new piece.Need more info to be more specific.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
The Piet Gar bought uses the foam weather stripping...-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Jun 30, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:> Hey all,> > Need to do the gap seals on the tail and ailerons. Wanted to hear what people did that worked. The first time around I used nylon self-adhesive rip stop tape in an upside down =9CU=9D. Have read about carpet tape. Has anyone used foam weatherstripping??> > Douwe> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
The Piet Gar bought uses the foam weather stripping...-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Jun 30, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:> Hey all,> > Need to do the gap seals on the tail and ailerons. Wanted to hear what people did that worked. The first time around I used nylon self-adhesive rip stop tape in an upside down =9CU=9D. Have read about carpet tape. Has anyone used foam weatherstripping??> > Douwe> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By:> echobravo4
N8031's behavior is much better with the gap seals on the elevator. I can lift the tail in about 50' and it trims out much better in flight. I recommend them. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:13 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> Question to the group:> > How critical is it, and what is the improvement to performance if the elevator gaps are sealed?> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> > no elevator gap seals> -----Original Message-----
N8031's behavior is much better with the gap seals on the elevator. I can lift the tail in about 50' and it trims out much better in flight. I recommend them. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:13 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> Question to the group:> > How critical is it, and what is the improvement to performance if the elevator gaps are sealed?> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> > no elevator gap seals> -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Original Posted By: "tools"
I'm kosher with the 20g (less than an oz.) Parkflyer RCs for late evening flying.Anything bigger and I'll get real nervous with them near my plane. Brodhead isn't really set up for big RC flyers - hangars and Hatz's are at thesouth end of the field, Piets are at the north. Taxiing a/c in between... -- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Jul 1, 2012, at 11:15 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > Okay, John, here's your first response that falls within your three acceptableanswers:> > Is anyone bringing or considering bringing and flying RC aircraft at Brodhead?> > "No." > > Having said that, most of the responses indicated reasons why it probably wouldn'tbe a good idea. I would interpret those responses as "No" as well.> One thing I know for sure, is that when I finally manage to complete my Piet,and fly it all the way to Brodhead, I would be more than a little peeved if itwere to be damaged by an errant model aircraft smashing into it. I can understandsomeone bringing a model Pietenpol to the event, just for display. Butactually flying model aircraft at an active airport loaded with antique and handcraftedaircraft, that's another story. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.> > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 987#376987> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
I'm kosher with the 20g (less than an oz.) Parkflyer RCs for late evening flying.Anything bigger and I'll get real nervous with them near my plane. Brodhead isn't really set up for big RC flyers - hangars and Hatz's are at thesouth end of the field, Piets are at the north. Taxiing a/c in between... -- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Jul 1, 2012, at 11:15 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > Okay, John, here's your first response that falls within your three acceptableanswers:> > Is anyone bringing or considering bringing and flying RC aircraft at Brodhead?> > "No." > > Having said that, most of the responses indicated reasons why it probably wouldn'tbe a good idea. I would interpret those responses as "No" as well.> One thing I know for sure, is that when I finally manage to complete my Piet,and fly it all the way to Brodhead, I would be more than a little peeved if itwere to be damaged by an errant model aircraft smashing into it. I can understandsomeone bringing a model Pietenpol to the event, just for display. Butactually flying model aircraft at an active airport loaded with antique and handcraftedaircraft, that's another story. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.> > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 987#376987> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "tools"
Wow... for the umteenth time CONTROL LINE, u/c, two sixty foot STEEL cables hookingmy model to me, WITH a safety strap (only been flying radio control planesfor 39 years, find control line more my style). I won't be ANYWHERE NEAR someone'sprecious plane. More than 60' and you're good. AND, as I mentioned,should it seem ANYWHERE near unsafe, I'll find a park, or cornfield, or somewheresomeone won't complain or feel threatened and I'll check with all regulatoryauthorities.I find it hard to believe there aren't formal check rides to fly at this event...I generally don't fly with people who aren't specifically checked out by qualifiedairmen and federal inspectors in the genre I'm flying...There isn't a lot going on, on Thurs, or at least there wasn't last year. Shouldbe a great time. I should also have a regular car should we need to travelsomewhere off site.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Wow... for the umteenth time CONTROL LINE, u/c, two sixty foot STEEL cables hookingmy model to me, WITH a safety strap (only been flying radio control planesfor 39 years, find control line more my style). I won't be ANYWHERE NEAR someone'sprecious plane. More than 60' and you're good. AND, as I mentioned,should it seem ANYWHERE near unsafe, I'll find a park, or cornfield, or somewheresomeone won't complain or feel threatened and I'll check with all regulatoryauthorities.I find it hard to believe there aren't formal check rides to fly at this event...I generally don't fly with people who aren't specifically checked out by qualifiedairmen and federal inspectors in the genre I'm flying...There isn't a lot going on, on Thurs, or at least there wasn't last year. Shouldbe a great time. I should also have a regular car should we need to travelsomewhere off site.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Dan,My Piet came with tape on the elevator and was highly recommended by Dick who soldme the piet.They made it most the way home (three days, probably had been on there a while)then I lost them and havn't replaced them (though I will).It definitely was an improvement, but nothing like the ailerons. Mostly in thegetting the tail up early and in the flare (much more authority and less of acrisis getting the stick in your lap in the flare kind of thing).Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Dan,My Piet came with tape on the elevator and was highly recommended by Dick who soldme the piet.They made it most the way home (three days, probably had been on there a while)then I lost them and havn't replaced them (though I will).It definitely was an improvement, but nothing like the ailerons. Mostly in thegetting the tail up early and in the flare (much more authority and less of acrisis getting the stick in your lap in the flare kind of thing).Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: tools
OK, I am sold on the effectiveness of the elevator gap seals...................but how do I justify it? I continue to be hamstrung by this purist thing. I have rules. If I had some evidence that Bernerd used them at some point along the way, or talked about them, or heck, even thought about using them, I would feel a whole lot better about the situation.Dan HelsperPuryear, TNPS: I wonder if the TC has elevator gap seals?-----Original Message-----
OK, I am sold on the effectiveness of the elevator gap seals...................but how do I justify it? I continue to be hamstrung by this purist thing. I have rules. If I had some evidence that Bernerd used them at some point along the way, or talked about them, or heck, even thought about using them, I would feel a whole lot better about the situation.Dan HelsperPuryear, TNPS: I wonder if the TC has elevator gap seals?-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol fly In at Brodhead
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "tools"
Bee-you-tee-ful!!! And what a nice pocketa-pocketa sound! Yes indeed, that isone clean and original-looking Air Camper. Congratulations!One teeny caution: stay the heck away from tie-down ropes on the apron while taxiingaround. I couldn't tell if those were ropes or just cracks in the tarmac,but if they were ropes- you don't want the prop to suck one up and suddenlythe airplane is on its nose with a rope wrapped around the prop or crankshaft.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Bee-you-tee-ful!!! And what a nice pocketa-pocketa sound! Yes indeed, that isone clean and original-looking Air Camper. Congratulations!One teeny caution: stay the heck away from tie-down ropes on the apron while taxiingaround. I couldn't tell if those were ropes or just cracks in the tarmac,but if they were ropes- you don't want the prop to suck one up and suddenlythe airplane is on its nose with a rope wrapped around the prop or crankshaft.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood repairs
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Ok, that's cool and we understand... SOOOO... consider other 1929 airplanes. The travel air 3000 the eaa owns and operates uses a cool and simple strap hingedesign that is not only vintage to the period, but nearly gap free, probablyenough so that it would be considered sealed.That same design is used on the 1919 J-1 as well. It's a neat way to seal, wouldalso look really good on a Piet.The bad news, you'd essentially have to build a new horiz stab and elevators. I can get some good pics if this appeals. Of course, there's a thousand otherways.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood repairs
Ok, that's cool and we understand... SOOOO... consider other 1929 airplanes. The travel air 3000 the eaa owns and operates uses a cool and simple strap hingedesign that is not only vintage to the period, but nearly gap free, probablyenough so that it would be considered sealed.That same design is used on the 1919 J-1 as well. It's a neat way to seal, wouldalso look really good on a Piet.The bad news, you'd essentially have to build a new horiz stab and elevators. I can get some good pics if this appeals. Of course, there's a thousand otherways.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood repairs
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Just for the heck of it, wondering where you all are getting your balsa?It's been years, but I know the store is still there, but a place in San Antonio TX called Alamo hardwoods used to sell balsa like any other hardwood.- It was in random widths and lengths (most 8' plus) mostly 8/4 (or 2" thick), by the board foot.- They'd cut to any length and slap a shipping lable on it, wouldn't be much to ship in the quantities we're looking at.It wasn't contest quality super super lightweight stuff, but lighter than ANY other wood you're going to find.- The type of stuff hollywood used to use to make props used in old western movie fight scenes (the chairs and tables that got broke up).Probably WAAAY cheaper than any hobby store stuff.- Might be worth looking into for these sorts of applications (and strut fairing, etc).Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 4#377084le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:38:12 -0400
Just for the heck of it, wondering where you all are getting your balsa?It's been years, but I know the store is still there, but a place in San Antonio TX called Alamo hardwoods used to sell balsa like any other hardwood.- It was in random widths and lengths (most 8' plus) mostly 8/4 (or 2" thick), by the board foot.- They'd cut to any length and slap a shipping lable on it, wouldn't be much to ship in the quantities we're looking at.It wasn't contest quality super super lightweight stuff, but lighter than ANY other wood you're going to find.- The type of stuff hollywood used to use to make props used in old western movie fight scenes (the chairs and tables that got broke up).Probably WAAAY cheaper than any hobby store stuff.- Might be worth looking into for these sorts of applications (and strut fairing, etc).Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 4#377084le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:38:12 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "tools"
Dan I have some oatmeal cartons laying around I could send you that mightwork for a gap seal. They're Quaker Oats though and the box is of themodern design so on second thought. Could probably find some original oneson Ebay though.All kidding aside, I'm going to make two balsa half rounds or cornermoldings and glue them in there with the faces along the axis which shouldallow a pretty tight seal.Thanks for all the ideas as usual!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Dan I have some oatmeal cartons laying around I could send you that mightwork for a gap seal. They're Quaker Oats though and the box is of themodern design so on second thought. Could probably find some original oneson Ebay though.All kidding aside, I'm going to make two balsa half rounds or cornermoldings and glue them in there with the faces along the axis which shouldallow a pretty tight seal.Thanks for all the ideas as usual!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Douwe, I used plain 'ol aluminum tape from the hardware store. My wings are silver so it blended fine. I see where Kevin and Shelly used clear tape, which should work as well. I just put the tape over the gap on the top side of the wing, with the tape applied with the aileron full down. This assured no binding caused by too-tight tape. Its been on my wing for a year and 105 hours of flying. I have the traditional cupboard hinges on my ailerons, not the piano hinge. I don't have any seals on the elevator but haven't noticed any lack of elevator authority. Matt Paxton________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 10:37:42 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Douwe, I used plain 'ol aluminum tape from the hardware store. My wings are silver so it blended fine. I see where Kevin and Shelly used clear tape, which should work as well. I just put the tape over the gap on the top side of the wing, with the tape applied with the aileron full down. This assured no binding caused by too-tight tape. Its been on my wing for a year and 105 hours of flying. I have the traditional cupboard hinges on my ailerons, not the piano hinge. I don't have any seals on the elevator but haven't noticed any lack of elevator authority. Matt Paxton________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 10:37:42 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Douwe - We've got the per-the-plan hinges. My aileron seal tape's installed from the bottom. I read on the fly-baby site about tape being applied on the top letting go and making things interesting for the pilot. Matt has succeeded for 105 hours so it probably has everything to do with surface prep before applying the tape. As Shelley mentioned, we don't have gap seals on the tail. I have no comparison, but the control authority seems ok. Reference this video from Markle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQyYKxwqe-oI do have the East Texas Trim System on the stick - a bungee pulling the stickaft, which has worked wonderfully. Maybe gap seals on the elevator would improvethat situation as Dan has stated.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Douwe - We've got the per-the-plan hinges. My aileron seal tape's installed from the bottom. I read on the fly-baby site about tape being applied on the top letting go and making things interesting for the pilot. Matt has succeeded for 105 hours so it probably has everything to do with surface prep before applying the tape. As Shelley mentioned, we don't have gap seals on the tail. I have no comparison, but the control authority seems ok. Reference this video from Markle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQyYKxwqe-oI do have the East Texas Trim System on the stick - a bungee pulling the stickaft, which has worked wonderfully. Maybe gap seals on the elevator would improvethat situation as Dan has stated.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Douwe,I've had first hand experience flying Pietenpols with and without gap seals.I have piano hinges on my ailerons, so no seals are needed. When I ferriedN502R to Brodhead a couple of years ago for Ryan Mueller, I picked it upfrom its owner, the late Gene Pennington, and flew it from Camden Tennesseeto Jackson Tennessee, where I was visiting my mother. When I made thatfirst takeoff, my first thought was something was broken because theailerons were so inneffective. When I landed in Jackson, I immediatelyapplied blue painter's tape in the aileron gaps, using the same techniqueKevin used. What a difference! I know Ryan never changed that temporarytape job. He sold N502R to John Hofmann. I don't know if John still has mytemporary gap seals in place, or if he has a more permanent solution.I tried gap seals on my elevators using duct tape applied to the underside.There were some minor changes due to sealing the gaps. Primarily, I found Icould raise the tail on takeoff in less than half the distance requiredwithout gap seals. I could not tell any difference in flight qualities,except that more nose up trim was required to hold level flight. I have aslight amount of incidence set into my horizontal tail (two AN970 washersworth) and could probably remove that if I kept the gap seals in place.Last year on the way to Brodhead one of the pieces of duct tape peeled abouthalfway off (I couldn't tell anything from the feel of the airplane) so Iremoved the tape from both sides and have never replaced it.So, in my opinion, gap seals are essential on the ailerons and unncessary onthe elevators. I have not tried them on the rudder, but the rudder has somuch authority I can't believe it could be much improved.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Douwe,I've had first hand experience flying Pietenpols with and without gap seals.I have piano hinges on my ailerons, so no seals are needed. When I ferriedN502R to Brodhead a couple of years ago for Ryan Mueller, I picked it upfrom its owner, the late Gene Pennington, and flew it from Camden Tennesseeto Jackson Tennessee, where I was visiting my mother. When I made thatfirst takeoff, my first thought was something was broken because theailerons were so inneffective. When I landed in Jackson, I immediatelyapplied blue painter's tape in the aileron gaps, using the same techniqueKevin used. What a difference! I know Ryan never changed that temporarytape job. He sold N502R to John Hofmann. I don't know if John still has mytemporary gap seals in place, or if he has a more permanent solution.I tried gap seals on my elevators using duct tape applied to the underside.There were some minor changes due to sealing the gaps. Primarily, I found Icould raise the tail on takeoff in less than half the distance requiredwithout gap seals. I could not tell any difference in flight qualities,except that more nose up trim was required to hold level flight. I have aslight amount of incidence set into my horizontal tail (two AN970 washersworth) and could probably remove that if I kept the gap seals in place.Last year on the way to Brodhead one of the pieces of duct tape peeled abouthalfway off (I couldn't tell anything from the feel of the airplane) so Iremoved the tape from both sides and have never replaced it.So, in my opinion, gap seals are essential on the ailerons and unncessary onthe elevators. I have not tried them on the rudder, but the rudder has somuch authority I can't believe it could be much improved.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "FandS_Piet"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: center section cut outDouwe,Great find about Joe's experimentations. Joe's plane is/was a heavy 85hp GN-1 Grega with a very long nose. I flew Joe's airplane with the cutout (he was gracious enough to allow me to fly his before my plane was finished) and it was a very nice handling airplane but you could feel how much heavier it was than say Frank Pavliga's or mine-still a good plane and glad you posted about Joe's article.Here's one thing I know. I have a cutout with a handhold and my plane stalls power off at 29 mph. Build it light and it will stall nicely with or without a cutout. My empty weight is 632 lbs.So great to hear of your continuing progress on your Pietenpol and that you'll be getting some good tailwheel instruction in the near future to prepare you for the day of celebration!Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: center section cut outDouwe,Great find about Joe's experimentations. Joe's plane is/was a heavy 85hp GN-1 Grega with a very long nose. I flew Joe's airplane with the cutout (he was gracious enough to allow me to fly his before my plane was finished) and it was a very nice handling airplane but you could feel how much heavier it was than say Frank Pavliga's or mine-still a good plane and glad you posted about Joe's article.Here's one thing I know. I have a cutout with a handhold and my plane stalls power off at 29 mph. Build it light and it will stall nicely with or without a cutout. My empty weight is 632 lbs.So great to hear of your continuing progress on your Pietenpol and that you'll be getting some good tailwheel instruction in the near future to prepare you for the day of celebration!Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "namrednos"
For the sides and bottom of a piet what type of plywood would you builders (flyer's)recommend. I have found local (no shipping cost) 1/4" Okume and 1/8" and1/4" Meranti Marine plywood. Meranti looks like mahogany and is heavier thanthe Okume but at a better price. Both are stamped BS 1088, a British standardfor glue waterproof and boil proof with minimum face ply thickness. Thanks for your helpScott in KentuckyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
For the sides and bottom of a piet what type of plywood would you builders (flyer's)recommend. I have found local (no shipping cost) 1/4" Okume and 1/8" and1/4" Meranti Marine plywood. Meranti looks like mahogany and is heavier thanthe Okume but at a better price. Both are stamped BS 1088, a British standardfor glue waterproof and boil proof with minimum face ply thickness. Thanks for your helpScott in KentuckyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
RE: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
Douwe,I did kind of the same thing. Used 1/8 balsa glued into a V shape, than glued onthe flippers.Skip----- Original Message -----
Douwe,I did kind of the same thing. Used 1/8 balsa glued into a V shape, than glued onthe flippers.Skip----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: airlion
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
Skip, does the V made of balsa completely fill up the gap between the elevator and stabilizer, or does it just go to the centerline with a similar V on the horizontal stabilizer? I want to do something similar and would like to know the answer to the above question. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Skip, does the V made of balsa completely fill up the gap between the elevator and stabilizer, or does it just go to the centerline with a similar V on the horizontal stabilizer? I want to do something similar and would like to know the answer to the above question. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seals
Original Posted By: C N Campbell
Chuck,The V shape completely fills the gap, except for fabric and a little fudge factorallowance.Skip----- Original Message -----
Chuck,The V shape completely fills the gap, except for fabric and a little fudge factorallowance.Skip----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: flying wire sizes
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
Used 3/32 (per plans). Hasn't fallen out of the sky yet.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Used 3/32 (per plans). Hasn't fallen out of the sky yet.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
Original Posted By: "Kelly Klaus"
I chickened out and went to 1/8". 3/32" is fine I'm sure.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals
I chickened out and went to 1/8". 3/32" is fine I'm sure.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gap seals