Original Posted By: "Conoly"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list?>-------------->> >> I am a member of a fair number of lists and have been a member of >many others. I have never been subjected to the kind of posts from a >list host Matt has put out to the membership of this list and see no >reason for it. The 9 lists I operate on ListBot incur no cost and >require virtually no time on my part.... If I took off for a year >the system would still be up and running...>> >> H.W.>>--------------Howard, are you serious with these statements? Is the Internet to you,and the services found therein, just a big bunch of magic that somehowhappens all by itself and more importantly for free? Just because youcan go-to-the-box and click a few buttons to "be your own list master"doesn't mean that's all there is to it, for crying out loud! ListBot isjust a service offered by an ISP (oh sorry, Internet Service Provider)as a come-on to get you to surf over to their web sites, pay them forconnectivity, and buy products from their advertisers. Didn't you know that there were real computers and real Internet Connections and realpeople that run and pay for it all?? Criminy, wakeup and smell the come-on...I'm here to tell you that running a well-maintained Internet site is farfrom "no-work" and even farther from "no-cost". While I do sell aproduct called the FuelScan under the name Matronics and do include asmall reminder in the trailer of each message that my company exists,don't even think for a minute that somehow the sales generated from iteven comes close to covering the costs involved with running a site suchas this. And really, just exactly how many $1000 fuel flow computers amI going to sell to Pietenpol Builders?? I certainly mean no offense toPietenpol Builders, but really - think about it. The "advertising" scamI've got going on the List is really raking in the big bucks for me...N O T!The only reason I can afford to run this site and pay for the InternetConnection is through the direct support of the List members. The costsinvolved with maintaining my site amount to thousands of dollars peryear - and it comes out of *my* pocket. As I can afford it, I amconstantly upgrading the various pieces of hardware that make up the twomain server machines to provide the fastest service practical. In caseyou hadn't noticed, Dual-processor computer systems loaded with memoryand disk space aren't exactly free these days. Ca-$hing - can you say5-digit capital expenditures? Who do you think exactly pays for that?Maybe there's a Magic web page out there in the Great Internet Landwhere you can just click on a Check Box and press the Submit button andthe hardware just APPEARS on your door step! And maybe there's anothercheck box for instantly setting up and configuring the latest operatingsystem, too? Yeah, and maybe monkeys are gonna fly out of my ass. Imust have somehow missed that Magic URL where you can get all that stufffor free 'cause I've been pulling out my own damn personal credit cardand racking up quite a bill to provide the level of service found hereon my systems. Oh, and did I mention its FREE OF CHARGE to the members?And all of that doesn't even include the huge amount of personal time I'invest' in keeping the systems running, doing backups, developing newutilities like the Archive Search Engine and the Aviation ClassifiedSection, manually subscribing and unsubscribing people that can't seemfigure out how to type in their email address and click a button ona web page, and worst of all dealing with uninformed, technicallychallenged, ingrates who can't seem to see the value-added in a servicethat is provided to them fricken' FREE OF CHARGE!Howard, maybe you've never been "subjected", as you put it, to a Listwhere the administrator posted to List because you've never been on aList where the Administrator gave a shit about the Lists or the peopleon them (I refer to the ListBot, certainly not Steve E by the way). Andwhat about the access to the Archives? I get 200-300 list Archivesearches per day here on my server and nearly as many Archive browses.Somebody must be finding that those value-added services useful... Oh,and did I mention that those same Archives have all of the garbagestripped out so all you don't have to find the message text in 300 linesof crap? Oh, and did I mention you'll never receive a computer virusfrom one of my Lists? Oh, and did I mention I normally don't allowpeople to talk this way on my Lists? Oh, and did I mention you get all of this fricken' FREE OF CHARGE?As most would attest to on the other Lists I maintain, I'm usually apretty mild-mannered fellow and do my best to make peace in the publicforum, but this whole topic has just really annoyed me. Peopleshouldn't be shooting their mouth off and slamming the hard work andinvestment of others, especially when it's obvious they clearly havetheir head fully up their own ass. Oh, and did I mention that they getall of that hard work and investment handed to them FREE OF CHARGE andyet they still have the gall to bad-mouth it in the public forum?And now, to literally EVERYONE else that I've received email from eitherdirectly or indirectly, thank you so much for your kind words andencouragement! The overwhelming consensus has been that my Listoperation practices here are quite acceptable and very reasonable andthat its refreshing that a List Administrator would actually have somerules of conduct, and more importantly take the time and considerationto really "manage" an email List rather than just set one up on someoneelse's machine, call it "their List", and then "take off for a year"...Anyway, I hope that everyone else will enjoy the List and the servicesfound here to the fullest extent possible, since your enjoyment is thereason I do it. I ask for VOLUNTARY contributions only from those that find the Lists and services useful, informative, and enjoyable. Thosecontributions go directly to paying the never ending stream of billsthat are, believe it or not, actually associated with the operation ofEmail Lists and Internet Sites.My best regards to all the Members!Matt Dralle10 Year Email List Administratordralle(at)matronics.com-- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Emailhttp://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list?
Original Posted By: "Greg Yotz"
Matt,Well, at least you didn't use all cap's!Mark BoyntonGilbert, AZP.S. As I said before, I think the list is great. Thanks for all yourefforts.> > > >--------------> >> > > >> > I am a member of a fair number of lists and have been a member of > >many others. I have never been subjected to the kind of posts from a > >list host Matt has put out to the membership of this list and see no > >reason for it. The 9 lists I operate on ListBot incur no cost and > >require virtually no time on my part.... If I took off for a year > >the system would still be up and running...> >> > > >> > H.W.> >> >--------------> > > Howard, are you serious with these statements? Is the Internet to you,> and the services found therein, just a big bunch of magic that somehow> happens all by itself and more importantly for free? Just because you> can go-to-the-box and click a few buttons to "be your own list master"> doesn't mean that's all there is to it, for crying out loud! ListBot is> just a service offered by an ISP (oh sorry, Internet Service Provider)> as a come-on to get you to surf over to their web sites, pay them for> connectivity, and buy products from their advertisers. Didn't you know > that there were real computers and real Internet Connections and real> people that run and pay for it all?? Criminy, wakeup and smell the > come-on...> > I'm here to tell you that running a well-maintained Internet site is far> from "no-work" and even farther from "no-cost". While I do sell a> product called the FuelScan under the name Matronics and do include a> small reminder in the trailer of each message that my company exists,> don't even think for a minute that somehow the sales generated from it> even comes close to covering the costs involved with running a site such> as this. And really, just exactly how many $1000 fuel flow computers am> I going to sell to Pietenpol Builders?? I certainly mean no offense to> Pietenpol Builders, but really - think about it. The "advertising" scam> I've got going on the List is really raking in the big bucks for me...> N O T!> > The only reason I can afford to run this site and pay for the Internet> Connection is through the direct support of the List members. The costs> involved with maintaining my site amount to thousands of dollars per> year - and it comes out of *my* pocket. As I can afford it, I am> constantly upgrading the various pieces of hardware that make up the two> main server machines to provide the fastest service practical. In case> you hadn't noticed, Dual-processor computer systems loaded with memory> and disk space aren't exactly free these days. Ca-$hing - can you say> 5-digit capital expenditures? Who do you think exactly pays for that?> Maybe there's a Magic web page out there in the Great Internet Land> where you can just click on a Check Box and press the Submit button and> the hardware just APPEARS on your door step! And maybe there's another> check box for instantly setting up and configuring the latest operating> system, too? Yeah, and maybe monkeys are gonna fly out of my ass. I> must have somehow missed that Magic URL where you can get all that stuff> for free 'cause I've been pulling out my own damn personal credit card> and racking up quite a bill to provide the level of service found here> on my systems. Oh, and did I mention its FREE OF CHARGE to the members?> > And all of that doesn't even include the huge amount of personal time I> 'invest' in keeping the systems running, doing backups, developing new> utilities like the Archive Search Engine and the Aviation Classified> Section, manually subscribing and unsubscribing people that can't seem> figure out how to type in their email address and click a button on> a web page, and worst of all dealing with uninformed, technically> challenged, ingrates who can't seem to see the value-added in a service> that is provided to them fricken' FREE OF CHARGE!> > Howard, maybe you've never been "subjected", as you put it, to a List> where the administrator posted to List because you've never been on a> List where the Administrator gave a shit about the Lists or the people> on them (I refer to the ListBot, certainly not Steve E by the way). And> what about the access to the Archives? I get 200-300 list Archive> searches per day here on my server and nearly as many Archive browses.> Somebody must be finding that those value-added services useful... Oh,> and did I mention that those same Archives have all of the garbage> stripped out so all you don't have to find the message text in 300 lines> of crap? Oh, and did I mention you'll never receive a computer virus> from one of my Lists? Oh, and did I mention I normally don't allow> people to talk this way on my Lists? Oh, and did I mention you get all > of this fricken' FREE OF CHARGE?> > As most would attest to on the other Lists I maintain, I'm usually a> pretty mild-mannered fellow and do my best to make peace in the public> forum, but this whole topic has just really annoyed me. People> shouldn't be shooting their mouth off and slamming the hard work and> investment of others, especially when it's obvious they clearly have> their head fully up their own ass. Oh, and did I mention that they get> all of that hard work and investment handed to them FREE OF CHARGE and> yet they still have the gall to bad-mouth it in the public forum?> > > And now, to literally EVERYONE else that I've received email from either> directly or indirectly, thank you so much for your kind words and> encouragement! The overwhelming consensus has been that my List> operation practices here are quite acceptable and very reasonable and> that its refreshing that a List Administrator would actually have some> rules of conduct, and more importantly take the time and consideration> to really "manage" an email List rather than just set one up on someone> else's machine, call it "their List", and then "take off for a year"...> > Anyway, I hope that everyone else will enjoy the List and the services> found here to the fullest extent possible, since your enjoyment is the> reason I do it. I ask for VOLUNTARY contributions only from those that > find the Lists and services useful, informative, and enjoyable. Those> contributions go directly to paying the never ending stream of bills> that are, believe it or not, actually associated with the operation of> Email Lists and Internet Sites.> > My best regards to all the Members!> > Matt Dralle> 10 Year Email List Administrator> dralle(at)matronics.com> > > -- > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Matt,Well, at least you didn't use all cap's!Mark BoyntonGilbert, AZP.S. As I said before, I think the list is great. Thanks for all yourefforts.> > > >--------------> >> > > >> > I am a member of a fair number of lists and have been a member of > >many others. I have never been subjected to the kind of posts from a > >list host Matt has put out to the membership of this list and see no > >reason for it. The 9 lists I operate on ListBot incur no cost and > >require virtually no time on my part.... If I took off for a year > >the system would still be up and running...> >> > > >> > H.W.> >> >--------------> > > Howard, are you serious with these statements? Is the Internet to you,> and the services found therein, just a big bunch of magic that somehow> happens all by itself and more importantly for free? Just because you> can go-to-the-box and click a few buttons to "be your own list master"> doesn't mean that's all there is to it, for crying out loud! ListBot is> just a service offered by an ISP (oh sorry, Internet Service Provider)> as a come-on to get you to surf over to their web sites, pay them for> connectivity, and buy products from their advertisers. Didn't you know > that there were real computers and real Internet Connections and real> people that run and pay for it all?? Criminy, wakeup and smell the > come-on...> > I'm here to tell you that running a well-maintained Internet site is far> from "no-work" and even farther from "no-cost". While I do sell a> product called the FuelScan under the name Matronics and do include a> small reminder in the trailer of each message that my company exists,> don't even think for a minute that somehow the sales generated from it> even comes close to covering the costs involved with running a site such> as this. And really, just exactly how many $1000 fuel flow computers am> I going to sell to Pietenpol Builders?? I certainly mean no offense to> Pietenpol Builders, but really - think about it. The "advertising" scam> I've got going on the List is really raking in the big bucks for me...> N O T!> > The only reason I can afford to run this site and pay for the Internet> Connection is through the direct support of the List members. The costs> involved with maintaining my site amount to thousands of dollars per> year - and it comes out of *my* pocket. As I can afford it, I am> constantly upgrading the various pieces of hardware that make up the two> main server machines to provide the fastest service practical. In case> you hadn't noticed, Dual-processor computer systems loaded with memory> and disk space aren't exactly free these days. Ca-$hing - can you say> 5-digit capital expenditures? Who do you think exactly pays for that?> Maybe there's a Magic web page out there in the Great Internet Land> where you can just click on a Check Box and press the Submit button and> the hardware just APPEARS on your door step! And maybe there's another> check box for instantly setting up and configuring the latest operating> system, too? Yeah, and maybe monkeys are gonna fly out of my ass. I> must have somehow missed that Magic URL where you can get all that stuff> for free 'cause I've been pulling out my own damn personal credit card> and racking up quite a bill to provide the level of service found here> on my systems. Oh, and did I mention its FREE OF CHARGE to the members?> > And all of that doesn't even include the huge amount of personal time I> 'invest' in keeping the systems running, doing backups, developing new> utilities like the Archive Search Engine and the Aviation Classified> Section, manually subscribing and unsubscribing people that can't seem> figure out how to type in their email address and click a button on> a web page, and worst of all dealing with uninformed, technically> challenged, ingrates who can't seem to see the value-added in a service> that is provided to them fricken' FREE OF CHARGE!> > Howard, maybe you've never been "subjected", as you put it, to a List> where the administrator posted to List because you've never been on a> List where the Administrator gave a shit about the Lists or the people> on them (I refer to the ListBot, certainly not Steve E by the way). And> what about the access to the Archives? I get 200-300 list Archive> searches per day here on my server and nearly as many Archive browses.> Somebody must be finding that those value-added services useful... Oh,> and did I mention that those same Archives have all of the garbage> stripped out so all you don't have to find the message text in 300 lines> of crap? Oh, and did I mention you'll never receive a computer virus> from one of my Lists? Oh, and did I mention I normally don't allow> people to talk this way on my Lists? Oh, and did I mention you get all > of this fricken' FREE OF CHARGE?> > As most would attest to on the other Lists I maintain, I'm usually a> pretty mild-mannered fellow and do my best to make peace in the public> forum, but this whole topic has just really annoyed me. People> shouldn't be shooting their mouth off and slamming the hard work and> investment of others, especially when it's obvious they clearly have> their head fully up their own ass. Oh, and did I mention that they get> all of that hard work and investment handed to them FREE OF CHARGE and> yet they still have the gall to bad-mouth it in the public forum?> > > And now, to literally EVERYONE else that I've received email from either> directly or indirectly, thank you so much for your kind words and> encouragement! The overwhelming consensus has been that my List> operation practices here are quite acceptable and very reasonable and> that its refreshing that a List Administrator would actually have some> rules of conduct, and more importantly take the time and consideration> to really "manage" an email List rather than just set one up on someone> else's machine, call it "their List", and then "take off for a year"...> > Anyway, I hope that everyone else will enjoy the List and the services> found here to the fullest extent possible, since your enjoyment is the> reason I do it. I ask for VOLUNTARY contributions only from those that > find the Lists and services useful, informative, and enjoyable. Those> contributions go directly to paying the never ending stream of bills> that are, believe it or not, actually associated with the operation of> Email Lists and Internet Sites.> > My best regards to all the Members!> > Matt Dralle> 10 Year Email List Administrator> dralle(at)matronics.com> > > -- > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Son of "Setting the record straight"
Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Apology excepted....Feels good to rant once in awhile doesn't it?I can associate with you.... And it's hard to appreciate the value ofsomething FREE.I'm an electronic engineer by trade and also do quite a bit of programming.I do all the network admin stuff for our smallschool district. This saves them money that can go to do better things forthe kids. But the next time someone complainsbecause 'it was about time I got that done!' After I put in a full dayswork at my job then work on the schools networkuntil 2 am or all weekend, I'm definitely going to rant a little.Greg Yotz(trying to rig and get ready for fabric)________________________________________________________________________________
Apology excepted....Feels good to rant once in awhile doesn't it?I can associate with you.... And it's hard to appreciate the value ofsomething FREE.I'm an electronic engineer by trade and also do quite a bit of programming.I do all the network admin stuff for our smallschool district. This saves them money that can go to do better things forthe kids. But the next time someone complainsbecause 'it was about time I got that done!' After I put in a full dayswork at my job then work on the schools networkuntil 2 am or all weekend, I'm definitely going to rant a little.Greg Yotz(trying to rig and get ready for fabric)________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list?
Original Posted By: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list?MattDo you really expect us to read an Email that is that long?Lets get off of the reasons/blame/considerations etc. everyone needs todo what they want to do and not burden everyone else with their angst.I will join any and all Pietenpol lists because I'm in it for content.Now you guys have ME doing it.Gee Whiz________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list?MattDo you really expect us to read an Email that is that long?Lets get off of the reasons/blame/considerations etc. everyone needs todo what they want to do and not burden everyone else with their angst.I will join any and all Pietenpol lists because I'm in it for content.Now you guys have ME doing it.Gee Whiz________________________________________________________________________________