Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: D"Box.I have a question about the spar for the GN or Piet. Have any of yall putstrips of wood between the ribs and made the top level with the ribedges? If this was done when you put the leading edge material on youcould just wrap it all the way around the leading edge and make a reallystrong D box arrangement out of your wing. Really strong. Also I see the Piet spar contact points both upper and lower to the ribshas no uprights next to the spar. Is this a refined design in the newPiet plans.ThanksSteveSteve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: D"Box.
Re: Pietenpol-List: D"Box.
Original Posted By: "Greg Yotz"
A lot of aircraft use filler blocks between the rib capstrips, but usuallywhere an aluminum leading edge is being used. You wouldn't want to wrapthe leading edge all the way around, though, because moisture wouldcollect. The extra strength is not necessary in a Piet anyway, althoughsome aircraft with cantilever wings (Cessna Airmaster, for example) do havethe leading edge wrapped for that very purpose. Finally, some folks(most?) do add uprights to the rib on both spar faces. Seems like a goodidea to me.________________________________________________________________________________
A lot of aircraft use filler blocks between the rib capstrips, but usuallywhere an aluminum leading edge is being used. You wouldn't want to wrapthe leading edge all the way around, though, because moisture wouldcollect. The extra strength is not necessary in a Piet anyway, althoughsome aircraft with cantilever wings (Cessna Airmaster, for example) do havethe leading edge wrapped for that very purpose. Finally, some folks(most?) do add uprights to the rib on both spar faces. Seems like a goodidea to me.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!>>Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and some>trouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of trouble>in the past with getting water in the paint or even having water run>through my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, on>the line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in this>filter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned on>me that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hot>as it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air and>this was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hose>along the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun.>This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water to>condense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board to>again filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised how>much more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the one>mounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, set>it in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhe>compreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will really>help, as Ken Beanlands said.>>John Langston>Pipe Creek, TX>nle97(at)juno.com>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:23:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!>>Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and some>trouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of trouble>in the past with getting water in the paint or even having water run>through my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, on>the line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in this>filter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned on>me that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hot>as it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air and>this was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hose>along the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun.>This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water to>condense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board to>again filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised how>much more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the one>mounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, set>it in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhe>compreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will really>help, as Ken Beanlands said.>>John Langston>Pipe Creek, TX>nle97(at)juno.com>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:23:54 -0700 (MST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat.
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat.>>Mike,> I'm not to sure what you mean by "butt joint" on the hull, but ifyou>are referring to the plywood skin on the fuselage sides and bottom you>should scarff them at a 10:1 angle. We used Finnish birch plywood on our>project and this comes in 2'X4' pieces if I remember right. So we had to>splice in order to get pieces big enough for the 6' sides and belly. We>spliced them together first, before cutting to size and it was not>particularly difficult to do. We did make up a sanding scarff jointer as>described in one of Tony Bingelis' books and it went pretty fast. I>think we could have done a nicer job using a small plane and rasp,>however. But anyway, it's done and looks OK. It's also plenty strong.>>John Langston>Pipe Creek, TX>nle97(at)juno.com>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:31:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat.>>Mike,> I'm not to sure what you mean by "butt joint" on the hull, but ifyou>are referring to the plywood skin on the fuselage sides and bottom you>should scarff them at a 10:1 angle. We used Finnish birch plywood on our>project and this comes in 2'X4' pieces if I remember right. So we had to>splice in order to get pieces big enough for the 6' sides and belly. We>spliced them together first, before cutting to size and it was not>particularly difficult to do. We did make up a sanding scarff jointer as>described in one of Tony Bingelis' books and it went pretty fast. I>think we could have done a nicer job using a small plane and rasp,>however. But anyway, it's done and looks OK. It's also plenty strong.>>John Langston>Pipe Creek, TX>nle97(at)juno.com>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:31:13 -0700 (MST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!
Original Posted By: "Cy Galley"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and sometrouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of troublein the past with getting water in the paint or even having water runthrough my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, onthe line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in thisfilter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned onme that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hotas it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air andthis was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hosealong the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun. This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water tocondense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board toagain filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised howmuch more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the onemounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, setit in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhecompreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will reallyhelp, as Ken Beanlands said.John LangstonPipe Creek, TXnle97(at)juno.com________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and sometrouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of troublein the past with getting water in the paint or even having water runthrough my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, onthe line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in thisfilter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned onme that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hotas it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air andthis was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hosealong the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun. This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water tocondense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board toagain filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised howmuch more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the onemounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, setit in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhecompreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will reallyhelp, as Ken Beanlands said.John LangstonPipe Creek, TXnle97(at)juno.com________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: D"Box.
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: D"Box.Steve, We haven't finished our wing yet, but we are not going to put any stripsin between the ribs along the spar. It would add extra weight that isn'tnecessary. Also, whether you install a metal, wood, or cardboard leadingedge, it is not good to run the leading edge all the way to the spar onthe bottom. The open space allows for drainage of moisture and whateverwater will get up there. All the production airplanes I've recoveredhave shown evidence of water accumulation in this area and the airplanesI've redone with wooden leading edges have always had the wood rottedaway at the bottom edge. Always be sure to allow for water drainage thebest you can. I'm not too sure what type leading edge we will use (not cardboard!),but we are leaning toward metal at this time. There is a problem withmetal leading edges against wood ribs in that sometimes moisture can betrapped between the leading edge and the wood rib causing the rib to rot. If the leading edge can be bent or formed to shape it would be good toglue the skin to the rib rather than tack as is usually done and if thereis a good fill of glue, this problem should be prevented. We also are not adding uprights -- I've thought about this in the pasttoo --because they're not needed. We did make a one piece wing with 1"spars and the ribs slid on stiffly requirering no further reinforment.John LangstonPipe Creek, TXnle97(at)juno.com________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: D"Box.Steve, We haven't finished our wing yet, but we are not going to put any stripsin between the ribs along the spar. It would add extra weight that isn'tnecessary. Also, whether you install a metal, wood, or cardboard leadingedge, it is not good to run the leading edge all the way to the spar onthe bottom. The open space allows for drainage of moisture and whateverwater will get up there. All the production airplanes I've recoveredhave shown evidence of water accumulation in this area and the airplanesI've redone with wooden leading edges have always had the wood rottedaway at the bottom edge. Always be sure to allow for water drainage thebest you can. I'm not too sure what type leading edge we will use (not cardboard!),but we are leaning toward metal at this time. There is a problem withmetal leading edges against wood ribs in that sometimes moisture can betrapped between the leading edge and the wood rib causing the rib to rot. If the leading edge can be bent or formed to shape it would be good toglue the skin to the rib rather than tack as is usually done and if thereis a good fill of glue, this problem should be prevented. We also are not adding uprights -- I've thought about this in the pasttoo --because they're not needed. We did make a one piece wing with 1"spars and the ribs slid on stiffly requirering no further reinforment.John LangstonPipe Creek, TXnle97(at)juno.com________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
You can buy a small disposable water filter for between your gun and yourhose.Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)-----Original Message-----
You can buy a small disposable water filter for between your gun and yourhose.Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat.
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Thanks, John.. It's long finished.The pieces were a bow "deck" (sorta) replacement. we spread the hullslightly and droped the pieces in. Couldnt scarf because the minute thepressure was released the pieces skipped over each other, and it had to bebuilt in place to get it under the trim.worked good anyway, and its not ever likley to ever see water again, itsjust a "teach the kids" type project.Mike-----Original Message-----
Thanks, John.. It's long finished.The pieces were a bow "deck" (sorta) replacement. we spread the hullslightly and droped the pieces in. Couldnt scarf because the minute thepressure was released the pieces skipped over each other, and it had to bebuilt in place to get it under the trim.worked good anyway, and its not ever likley to ever see water again, itsjust a "teach the kids" type project.Mike-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: D"Box.
Original Posted By: Rich
Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
John,Here's what I did to get rid of the water when I painted my Piet. First buya length of PVC pipe, Black and 4 inch dia. , the length should be just shyof a 4 foot bar clamp. Buy two end plugs for the PVC pipe. Buy a yard ofpolyester Matting, the type they sew into a coat for insulation. Buy acouple of fittings for your air lines. Drill and tap these into place with alittle glue for a seal around the threads, but don't install yet . Next makea couple of spacers that fit into the inside of the PVC (4") pipe. Thisspacer is needed to collect the air before it exit and to prevent pluggingup in the event that any particles should break loose from inside the pipe.The length should be about 3". Make a "U" cut-out to fit over the air linefittings that will be protruding to the inside. Glue a wire mesh at the endopposite the "U" just cut out. Now glue the spacer in place, making sure youdon't cover the hole that was previously drilled out for the air linefittings. Now install one fitting in place. Cut out 4 I/4 inch circles ofthe Polyester Matt. Stack them about 2" high and jamb the stack down throughthe PVC pipe to rest onto the wire mesh. This stack should be tight againstthe sides of the pipe. Next fill the pipe with moisture desiccant the kindthat shippers use to absorb moisture. Pack it down tight but not so tightthat you break the wire mesh at the other end. Now jamb another stack of 2 "Polyester, glue the other spacer in place. Glue the cap on. Install theother air line fitting. And let the glue cure and dry. Of course this is PVCglue. Now after a few days place this water filter into the 4 foot clamp.You'll need it to keep the caps from blowing off like a rocket and loosingall the desiccant. This worked like a charm for me. The desiccant absorbedall the water.I had a water trap as well just aft of the tank outlet but found that byitself the volume of air I used filled it with water too fast. Afterwardsyou can throw the home fashioned water filter out or let it evaporate by leaving the end open over a few months. Or cut off one end dry the desiccantout in a oven and then re-cap it. This may seem like a lot of work but itreally wasn't and it worked out well. This is an original idea, I've neverheard of anyone else ever doing anything like this.Regards,Domenic________________________________________________________________________________
John,Here's what I did to get rid of the water when I painted my Piet. First buya length of PVC pipe, Black and 4 inch dia. , the length should be just shyof a 4 foot bar clamp. Buy two end plugs for the PVC pipe. Buy a yard ofpolyester Matting, the type they sew into a coat for insulation. Buy acouple of fittings for your air lines. Drill and tap these into place with alittle glue for a seal around the threads, but don't install yet . Next makea couple of spacers that fit into the inside of the PVC (4") pipe. Thisspacer is needed to collect the air before it exit and to prevent pluggingup in the event that any particles should break loose from inside the pipe.The length should be about 3". Make a "U" cut-out to fit over the air linefittings that will be protruding to the inside. Glue a wire mesh at the endopposite the "U" just cut out. Now glue the spacer in place, making sure youdon't cover the hole that was previously drilled out for the air linefittings. Now install one fitting in place. Cut out 4 I/4 inch circles ofthe Polyester Matt. Stack them about 2" high and jamb the stack down throughthe PVC pipe to rest onto the wire mesh. This stack should be tight againstthe sides of the pipe. Next fill the pipe with moisture desiccant the kindthat shippers use to absorb moisture. Pack it down tight but not so tightthat you break the wire mesh at the other end. Now jamb another stack of 2 "Polyester, glue the other spacer in place. Glue the cap on. Install theother air line fitting. And let the glue cure and dry. Of course this is PVCglue. Now after a few days place this water filter into the 4 foot clamp.You'll need it to keep the caps from blowing off like a rocket and loosingall the desiccant. This worked like a charm for me. The desiccant absorbedall the water.I had a water trap as well just aft of the tank outlet but found that byitself the volume of air I used filled it with water too fast. Afterwardsyou can throw the home fashioned water filter out or let it evaporate by leaving the end open over a few months. Or cut off one end dry the desiccantout in a oven and then re-cap it. This may seem like a lot of work but itreally wasn't and it worked out well. This is an original idea, I've neverheard of anyone else ever doing anything like this.Regards,Domenic________________________________________________________________________________