Original Posted By: Michael Fisher
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet Pieters,While building the fuse for Repiet I want to wire it for nav lights, install switch and ammeter plus plan for the installation of a small wind driven generator. Would like an installation to be installed and removed easily as nightflying is not a regular activity. Edwin Johnson and I have discussed this and feel that if 311CC has the capability for night flight it would increase it's value to the next owner afterI'm gone. From some in the know: How much 12 v drain is there for the necessary nav lights?Is a strobe or rotating beacon required? If you know the reg numbers on this I would appreciate having them. Would appreciate your input on this subject.Thanks in advanceCorky in La________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:48:47 -0900
Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:
Corky,Here it all is: nav lights, anticollision (strobe or rotating beacon) (per91.205 (c)(3) ) installed to meet the part 23 criteria (if you need this letme know), and a landing light (per 91.507). It is 91.507 that really getsyou because this is relatively new addition to part 91 that says that youneed the instruments needed for IFR flight installed to fly night VFR. Youalso need to have it on your particular experimental aircraft's specificoperating limitations (the paperwork the DAR gives you) that you are ok fornight VFR.All the pertinent parts are below. I have edited out sections that don'tapply. I don't think it will happen with a Pietenpol.....too much weight.91.209 Aircraft lights.(a) No person may, during the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska,during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from adistance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below thehorizon) -- (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a nightflight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- (i) Is clearly illuminated;(ii) Has lighted position lights; or(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;(b) No person may operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollisionlight system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, theanticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-commanddetermines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in theinterest of safety to turn the lights off.[Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996] 91.507 Equipment requirements: Over-the-top or night VFR operations.No person may operate an airplane over-the-top or at night under VFR unlessthat airplane is equipped with the instruments and equipment required forIFR operations under 91.205(d) and one electric landing light for nightoperations. Each required instrument and item of equipment must be inoperable condition. 91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthinesscertificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of thissection, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standardcategory U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described inparagraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains theinstruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approvedequivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items ofequipment are in operable condition.(b) Visual-flight rules (day). For VFR flight during the day, the followinginstruments and equipment are required:(1) Airspeed indicator.(2) Altimeter.(3) Magnetic direction indicator.(4) Tachometer for each engine.(5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system.(6) Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine.(7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine.(8) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine.(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.(10) Landing gear position indicator, if the aircraft has a retractablelanding gear.(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, inaccordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red oraviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of anylight of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft maycontinue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.(15) An emergency locator transmitter, if required by 91.207.(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the followinginstruments and equipment are required:(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.(2) Approved position lights.(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system onall U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initiallyinstalled after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificatewas issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet theanticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, asapplicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the colormay be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of anylight of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may becontinued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical andradio equipment.(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, thatare accessible to the pilot in flight.(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments andequipment are required:(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section,and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c)of this section.(2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipmentappropriate to the ground facilities to be used.(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator.(4) Slip-skid indicator.(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-secondpointer or digital presentation.(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34292, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-220, 55FR 43310, Oct. 26, 1990; Amdt. 91-223, 56 FR 41052, Aug. 16, 1991; Amdt.91-231, 57 FR 42672, Sept. 15, 1992; Amdt. 91-248, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996;Amdt. 91-251, 61 FR 34560, July 2, 1996] 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.(d) (2) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimentalcertificate shall operate under VFR, day only, unless otherwise specificallyauthorized by the Administrator.(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number2120-0005)Chris BobkaCFI, ATP, A&P, IA, FE, AGI----- Original Message -----
Corky,Here it all is: nav lights, anticollision (strobe or rotating beacon) (per91.205 (c)(3) ) installed to meet the part 23 criteria (if you need this letme know), and a landing light (per 91.507). It is 91.507 that really getsyou because this is relatively new addition to part 91 that says that youneed the instruments needed for IFR flight installed to fly night VFR. Youalso need to have it on your particular experimental aircraft's specificoperating limitations (the paperwork the DAR gives you) that you are ok fornight VFR.All the pertinent parts are below. I have edited out sections that don'tapply. I don't think it will happen with a Pietenpol.....too much weight.91.209 Aircraft lights.(a) No person may, during the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska,during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from adistance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below thehorizon) -- (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a nightflight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- (i) Is clearly illuminated;(ii) Has lighted position lights; or(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;(b) No person may operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollisionlight system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, theanticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-commanddetermines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in theinterest of safety to turn the lights off.[Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996] 91.507 Equipment requirements: Over-the-top or night VFR operations.No person may operate an airplane over-the-top or at night under VFR unlessthat airplane is equipped with the instruments and equipment required forIFR operations under 91.205(d) and one electric landing light for nightoperations. Each required instrument and item of equipment must be inoperable condition. 91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthinesscertificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of thissection, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standardcategory U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described inparagraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains theinstruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approvedequivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items ofequipment are in operable condition.(b) Visual-flight rules (day). For VFR flight during the day, the followinginstruments and equipment are required:(1) Airspeed indicator.(2) Altimeter.(3) Magnetic direction indicator.(4) Tachometer for each engine.(5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system.(6) Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine.(7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine.(8) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine.(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.(10) Landing gear position indicator, if the aircraft has a retractablelanding gear.(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, inaccordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red oraviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of anylight of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft maycontinue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.(15) An emergency locator transmitter, if required by 91.207.(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the followinginstruments and equipment are required:(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.(2) Approved position lights.(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system onall U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initiallyinstalled after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificatewas issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet theanticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, asapplicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the colormay be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of anylight of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may becontinued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical andradio equipment.(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, thatare accessible to the pilot in flight.(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments andequipment are required:(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section,and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c)of this section.(2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipmentappropriate to the ground facilities to be used.(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator.(4) Slip-skid indicator.(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-secondpointer or digital presentation.(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34292, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-220, 55FR 43310, Oct. 26, 1990; Amdt. 91-223, 56 FR 41052, Aug. 16, 1991; Amdt.91-231, 57 FR 42672, Sept. 15, 1992; Amdt. 91-248, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996;Amdt. 91-251, 61 FR 34560, July 2, 1996] 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.(d) (2) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimentalcertificate shall operate under VFR, day only, unless otherwise specificallyauthorized by the Administrator.(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number2120-0005)Chris BobkaCFI, ATP, A&P, IA, FE, AGI----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:
you'll need a rotating beacon, red and green wing tip lights and a whitetail light. I'm pretty sure you can substitute strobes for a rotatingbeacon if desired. No landing light required but nice to have for darknights at poorly lit fields.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
you'll need a rotating beacon, red and green wing tip lights and a whitetail light. I'm pretty sure you can substitute strobes for a rotatingbeacon if desired. No landing light required but nice to have for darknights at poorly lit fields.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietThanks Chris, Things sure have changed in the past 50 yrs. I sure am glad I threw the light question out. You people are right if you thought, " how bumb can someone be". I sure didn't have a clue that an experimental was denied night flight.Thanks again for setting me straight.Corky in La who will only fly on sun shining days.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietThanks Chris, Things sure have changed in the past 50 yrs. I sure am glad I threw the light question out. You people are right if you thought, " how bumb can someone be". I sure didn't have a clue that an experimental was denied night flight.Thanks again for setting me straight.Corky in La who will only fly on sun shining days.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
DJ,Read the whole post I sent to corky on lights. A landing light AND IFRisntrumentation is required now, and that goes for the old taylorcrafts andcessna 140s, etc., as well.Chris----- Original Message -----
DJ,Read the whole post I sent to corky on lights. A landing light AND IFRisntrumentation is required now, and that goes for the old taylorcrafts andcessna 140s, etc., as well.Chris----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Apple QuickTime Video Help
Original Posted By: "Michael Fisher"
you need to right click that video link and choose "save target as" thensave it locally to your hard drive. It will play fine after doing that.For some reason which I have yet to figure out, some browsers do not like toplay the video even if the proper quicktime codec is installed.do the save target as and you'll be able to view it.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
you need to right click that video link and choose "save target as" thensave it locally to your hard drive. It will play fine after doing that.For some reason which I have yet to figure out, some browsers do not like toplay the video even if the proper quicktime codec is installed.do the save target as and you'll be able to view it.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:
No, Corky, an experimental is NOT necessarily blanket denied night VFR orday/night IFR. You need to look at the paperwork the DAR gave you in theform of limitations of the experimental airworthiness certificate of YOURparticular airplane. It might be denied, it might not. What is on thelimitations may be based on what you wrote on the application...chris----- Original Message -----
No, Corky, an experimental is NOT necessarily blanket denied night VFR orday/night IFR. You need to look at the paperwork the DAR gave you in theform of limitations of the experimental airworthiness certificate of YOURparticular airplane. It might be denied, it might not. What is on thelimitations may be based on what you wrote on the application...chris----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Here is my understanding of the rules, hopefully it will be of some help toyou,91.507 (or for that matter any of the rules within subpart F of part 91)does not apply unless you are a large or turbine powered multi-engineairplane.As for lights, here is how I understand the rules for part 91 operations inan airplane that is not large or turbine powered:If you have strobe lights you must use them - Always, unless they areinterefering with the safe conduct of flight (for example reflecting offclouds or the prop and distracting you.) Ref 91.209(b)If you wish to fly after sunset but before sunrise you must have navigationlights (the green and red wing tip lights.) (ref 91.209)If you wish to fly after the end of evening civil twilight but before thebegining of mourning civil twilight you must have anti-collision lights(ref 91.205c). This civil twilight stuff is a time as recorded in the AirAlmanac (an expensive book.) An unofficial source for the civil twilightinformation is on airnav.com, which lists civil twilight for that day whenyou look up an airport. It is about the time that the city starts to turnthe street lights on and you start noticing all the house lights. Thisdiffers from nautical twilight which is defined as the time when you can nolonger distinguish the horizon. Civil twilight buys you about an extra 20minutes here in Florida.For people that have old airplanes to operate at night (after the end ofcivil twilight) they must have an approved lighting system that meets thestandards on a specified date in the early 1970's, which if you dig throughthe references breaks down to you must have a strobe or rotating beacon. New airplanes are not allowed to use this option and must have the strobes.For instance a Stinson that was originally equipped for night flight whenit was certified cannot legally be used at night today unless it has abeacon or strobes.I hope this helps, to make sense of it keep in mind that one reg refers tosunset/sunrise, the other refers to 'night' which means end of civiltwilight to start of civil twilight.Kevinwww.airminded.net________________________________________________________________________________
Here is my understanding of the rules, hopefully it will be of some help toyou,91.507 (or for that matter any of the rules within subpart F of part 91)does not apply unless you are a large or turbine powered multi-engineairplane.As for lights, here is how I understand the rules for part 91 operations inan airplane that is not large or turbine powered:If you have strobe lights you must use them - Always, unless they areinterefering with the safe conduct of flight (for example reflecting offclouds or the prop and distracting you.) Ref 91.209(b)If you wish to fly after sunset but before sunrise you must have navigationlights (the green and red wing tip lights.) (ref 91.209)If you wish to fly after the end of evening civil twilight but before thebegining of mourning civil twilight you must have anti-collision lights(ref 91.205c). This civil twilight stuff is a time as recorded in the AirAlmanac (an expensive book.) An unofficial source for the civil twilightinformation is on airnav.com, which lists civil twilight for that day whenyou look up an airport. It is about the time that the city starts to turnthe street lights on and you start noticing all the house lights. Thisdiffers from nautical twilight which is defined as the time when you can nolonger distinguish the horizon. Civil twilight buys you about an extra 20minutes here in Florida.For people that have old airplanes to operate at night (after the end ofcivil twilight) they must have an approved lighting system that meets thestandards on a specified date in the early 1970's, which if you dig throughthe references breaks down to you must have a strobe or rotating beacon. New airplanes are not allowed to use this option and must have the strobes.For instance a Stinson that was originally equipped for night flight whenit was certified cannot legally be used at night today unless it has abeacon or strobes.I hope this helps, to make sense of it keep in mind that one reg refers tosunset/sunrise, the other refers to 'night' which means end of civiltwilight to start of civil twilight.Kevinwww.airminded.net________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietIn a message dated 11/21/03 9:40:29 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:>Corky,You should consider Super Bright LED's, for your nav lights. They use a lot less current, and almost last forever. I think several of them would have to be used together in a small group, each of them pointing in a different direction, because they are focal in their light emmition. You would probablyhave to make them up yourself. Today they are being used in flashlights, taillights on cars, and traffic lights. I'm planning on using them on my Tailwind,for the nav lights. Here are a couple of web sites that have some info about them: http://ledtaillights.com/http://www.kil ... s.htmChuck G.Three flights this week !! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietIn a message dated 11/21/03 9:40:29 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:>Corky,You should consider Super Bright LED's, for your nav lights. They use a lot less current, and almost last forever. I think several of them would have to be used together in a small group, each of them pointing in a different direction, because they are focal in their light emmition. You would probablyhave to make them up yourself. Today they are being used in flashlights, taillights on cars, and traffic lights. I'm planning on using them on my Tailwind,for the nav lights. Here are a couple of web sites that have some info about them: http://ledtaillights.com/http://www.kil ... s.htmChuck G.Three flights this week !! ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietChris,Thanks for the update. I've got some studying to do !!Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:39:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietChris,Thanks for the update. I've got some studying to do !!Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:39:22 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Kevin Holcomb"
Kevin and corky,You are right about the 91.507 not applying. I should have realized it wasin the subpart dealing with the large aircraft.The reference to "civil twilight" went out with the rewrite of the regs afew years back. It now just says "sunrise to sunset" unless you are inalaska, where another definition appliesNav lights and strobe or RB, that's how I see it. Or is the RB option outthe window now? The Saabs I flew has an RB fo0r the A models and strobes onthe B model. The A models were built in the late eighties and the B modelswere made in the nineties.chrisChris----- Original Message -----
Kevin and corky,You are right about the 91.507 not applying. I should have realized it wasin the subpart dealing with the large aircraft.The reference to "civil twilight" went out with the rewrite of the regs afew years back. It now just says "sunrise to sunset" unless you are inalaska, where another definition appliesNav lights and strobe or RB, that's how I see it. Or is the RB option outthe window now? The Saabs I flew has an RB fo0r the A models and strobes onthe B model. The A models were built in the late eighties and the B modelswere made in the nineties.chrisChris----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Jim Ash"
Jim,I would think that an experimental could have whatever the builder wants inthis regard but the DAR may have other ideas in the this area since oneyouare flying around, other airplanes will not know you as an experimentalbut merely as another aircraft airborne at night.Reference the following for color specifications:23.1397 Color specifications.Each position light color must have the applicable International Commissionon Illumination chromaticity coordinates as follows:(a) Aviation red -- y is not greater than 0.335; andz is not greater than 0.002.(b) Aviation green -- x is not greater than 0.4400.320y;x is not greater than y0.170; andy is not less than 0.3900.170x.(c) Aviation white -- x is not less than 0.300 and not greater than 0.540;y is not less than x0.040 or y00.010, whichever is the smaller; andy is not greater than x+0.020 nor 0.6360.400x;Where y0 is the y coordinate of the Planckian radiator for the value of xconsidered.[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, amended by Amdt. 23-11, 36 FR12971, July 10, 1971]----- Original Message -----
Jim,I would think that an experimental could have whatever the builder wants inthis regard but the DAR may have other ideas in the this area since oneyouare flying around, other airplanes will not know you as an experimentalbut merely as another aircraft airborne at night.Reference the following for color specifications:23.1397 Color specifications.Each position light color must have the applicable International Commissionon Illumination chromaticity coordinates as follows:(a) Aviation red -- y is not greater than 0.335; andz is not greater than 0.002.(b) Aviation green -- x is not greater than 0.4400.320y;x is not greater than y0.170; andy is not less than 0.3900.170x.(c) Aviation white -- x is not less than 0.300 and not greater than 0.540;y is not less than x0.040 or y00.010, whichever is the smaller; andy is not greater than x+0.020 nor 0.6360.400x;Where y0 is the y coordinate of the Planckian radiator for the value of xconsidered.[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, amended by Amdt. 23-11, 36 FR12971, July 10, 1971]----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Jim Ash"
Jim, I see no reason why LED's could not be used. There are red and greenLED's available in the 20,000 MCD brightness value. They are BRIGHT! Sobright you can damage your eyes by looking directly at them. If you grouped5 or 6 of them together each facing a slightly different angle you couldmake nav lights from them that shine the proper spread angle. They are verylow current drain also. I'm not sure why no aircraft light manufacturershave jumped on this bandwagon. LED's have come a very long way in the last5 years.They make these for cars which are pretty cool....http://www.xkms.org/JC-Whitney-44/Red-T ... .htmdirect replacements for incandescent.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Jim, I see no reason why LED's could not be used. There are red and greenLED's available in the 20,000 MCD brightness value. They are BRIGHT! Sobright you can damage your eyes by looking directly at them. If you grouped5 or 6 of them together each facing a slightly different angle you couldmake nav lights from them that shine the proper spread angle. They are verylow current drain also. I'm not sure why no aircraft light manufacturershave jumped on this bandwagon. LED's have come a very long way in the last5 years.They make these for cars which are pretty cool....http://www.xkms.org/JC-Whitney-44/Red-T ... .htmdirect replacements for incandescent.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Kevin Holcomb"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietChris,After a good nights sleep and a cup of Isabelle's BLACK cajun coffee this morning I found a copy of the "operating limitations" issued by my DAR for 41CCand began reading. I find that that par (6) of Phase 1 says: This aircraft is to be operated under VISUAL FLIGHT RULES (VFR), day only.Under Phase 2, par (4) says: Unless appropriately equipped for night and/ or instrument flight in accordance with par 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day.I interpret this to mean that as long as I provide NX311CC (Repiet) with appropriate equipment for night flying according to the latest regulations a qualified pilot would be allowed to perform VFR night flights.Thanks again for you input on this subject. I can't see how I could possibly perform my proposed "Circum Gulf-Carrib goodwill flight" without night flight capabilities.Corky in La________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietChris,After a good nights sleep and a cup of Isabelle's BLACK cajun coffee this morning I found a copy of the "operating limitations" issued by my DAR for 41CCand began reading. I find that that par (6) of Phase 1 says: This aircraft is to be operated under VISUAL FLIGHT RULES (VFR), day only.Under Phase 2, par (4) says: Unless appropriately equipped for night and/ or instrument flight in accordance with par 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day.I interpret this to mean that as long as I provide NX311CC (Repiet) with appropriate equipment for night flying according to the latest regulations a qualified pilot would be allowed to perform VFR night flights.Thanks again for you input on this subject. I can't see how I could possibly perform my proposed "Circum Gulf-Carrib goodwill flight" without night flight capabilities.Corky in La________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Unfortunatly civil twilight is still with us. Per FAR 1.1 (as printed inmy 2003 FAR/AIM) "Night means the time between the end of evening civiltwilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in theAmerican Air Almanac, conveted to local time." This is invoked by FAR91.205 (c) Visual flight rules (night.) Which starts out with 'For VFRflight at night.....'.I really wish this would go away, sundown to sunset would be so much easierthan having to teach my students one definition for counting time as nightfor proficiency, another for being equipped to fly at night, and yetanother for turning the navigation lights on. Student pilots have enoughto master without this little bit of trivia to deal with.As for rotating beacons, my understanding is they are an acceptablesubstitute for strobes on old airplanes (aircraft for which a typecertificate was applied for or obtained prior to August 11,1971.) Howeverthey are not an acceptable for meeting the night requirements on a newairplane. Thus, you are of course more than welcome to put a rotatingbeacon on an exerimental, it will probably increase safety somewhat overhaving nothing. However that beacon will not allow you to operate legallyat night.Kevinwww.airminded.net________________________________________________________________________________
Unfortunatly civil twilight is still with us. Per FAR 1.1 (as printed inmy 2003 FAR/AIM) "Night means the time between the end of evening civiltwilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in theAmerican Air Almanac, conveted to local time." This is invoked by FAR91.205 (c) Visual flight rules (night.) Which starts out with 'For VFRflight at night.....'.I really wish this would go away, sundown to sunset would be so much easierthan having to teach my students one definition for counting time as nightfor proficiency, another for being equipped to fly at night, and yetanother for turning the navigation lights on. Student pilots have enoughto master without this little bit of trivia to deal with.As for rotating beacons, my understanding is they are an acceptablesubstitute for strobes on old airplanes (aircraft for which a typecertificate was applied for or obtained prior to August 11,1971.) Howeverthey are not an acceptable for meeting the night requirements on a newairplane. Thus, you are of course more than welcome to put a rotatingbeacon on an exerimental, it will probably increase safety somewhat overhaving nothing. However that beacon will not allow you to operate legallyat night.Kevinwww.airminded.net________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: "Kevin Holcomb"
Ah kevin. The light reg in 91 says "sunrise to sunset". It never mentionsthe word "night". Granted night is defined in Part 1 but it applies solelyto 91.205. Part 91.205 is titled "Powered civil aircraft with standardcategory U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipmentrequirements" and the question was about an experimetnal airworthinesscertificate, not a standard category airworthiness certificate so we canignore part 91.205(c) and revert to the "sunrise to sunset" of 91.209.Its good to go back and forth like this becuase this is how you learn thedarn regs!chris91.209 Aircraft lights.No person may:(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during theperiod a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -- (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a nightflight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- (i) Is clearly illuminated;(ii) Has lighted position lights; or(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -- (i) Has lighted anchor lights; or(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system,unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollisionlights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety toturn the lights off.[Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of thissection, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carryingpassengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flightcrewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and threelandings within the preceding 90 days, and -- (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of thesame category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if theaircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs andlandings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.(2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of thissection, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFRor day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board theaircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.(3) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of this sectionmay be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device thatis -- (i) Approved by the Administrator for landings; and(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a trainingcenter certificated under part 142 of this chapter.(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided inparagraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of anaircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunsetand ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days thatperson has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stopduring the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour beforesunrise, and -- (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of thesame category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).(2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of this sectionmay be accomplished in a flight simulator that is -- (i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if the visualsystem is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1) ofthis section; and(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a trainingcenter certificated under part 142 of this chapter.[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40898, July30, 1997; Amdt. 61-106, 64 FR 23529, Apr. 30, 1999; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR54559, Sept. 17, 2003]----- Original Message -----
Ah kevin. The light reg in 91 says "sunrise to sunset". It never mentionsthe word "night". Granted night is defined in Part 1 but it applies solelyto 91.205. Part 91.205 is titled "Powered civil aircraft with standardcategory U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipmentrequirements" and the question was about an experimetnal airworthinesscertificate, not a standard category airworthiness certificate so we canignore part 91.205(c) and revert to the "sunrise to sunset" of 91.209.Its good to go back and forth like this becuase this is how you learn thedarn regs!chris91.209 Aircraft lights.No person may:(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during theperiod a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -- (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a nightflight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- (i) Is clearly illuminated;(ii) Has lighted position lights; or(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -- (i) Has lighted anchor lights; or(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system,unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollisionlights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety toturn the lights off.[Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of thissection, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carryingpassengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flightcrewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and threelandings within the preceding 90 days, and -- (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of thesame category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if theaircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs andlandings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.(2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of thissection, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFRor day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board theaircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.(3) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of this sectionmay be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device thatis -- (i) Approved by the Administrator for landings; and(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a trainingcenter certificated under part 142 of this chapter.(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided inparagraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of anaircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunsetand ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days thatperson has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stopduring the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour beforesunrise, and -- (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of thesame category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).(2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of this sectionmay be accomplished in a flight simulator that is -- (i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if the visualsystem is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1) ofthis section; and(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a trainingcenter certificated under part 142 of this chapter.[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40898, July30, 1997; Amdt. 61-106, 64 FR 23529, Apr. 30, 1999; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR54559, Sept. 17, 2003]----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietChris and Kevin,Can I or can't I ????????????????Corky in La wanting to fly 311CC at night in the future________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a PietChris and Kevin,Can I or can't I ????????????????Corky in La wanting to fly 311CC at night in the future________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:
You could go the way of Alan Wise and hang Kerosene R.R. lanterns on thewing tips and just talk to curious people about how well they work.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
You could go the way of Alan Wise and hang Kerosene R.R. lanterns on thewing tips and just talk to curious people about how well they work.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: dave rowe
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By: Fred Weaver
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:> Christian Bobka
I missed that, good catch. Corky, I agree with Chris, for experimentals aslong as the operating limitations do not require you to comply with 91.205you can get by with just navigation lights after dark.> [Original Message]
I missed that, good catch. Corky, I agree with Chris, for experimentals aslong as the operating limitations do not require you to comply with 91.205you can get by with just navigation lights after dark.> [Original Message]
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:> "Kevin Holcomb"
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet>>> Ah kevin. The light reg in 91 says "sunrise to sunset". It nevermentions> the word "night". Granted night is defined in Part 1 but it appliessolely> to 91.205. Part 91.205 is titled "Powered civil aircraft with standard> category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment> requirements" and the question was about an experimetnal airworthiness> certificate, not a standard category airworthiness certificate so we can> ignore part 91.205(c) and revert to the "sunrise to sunset" of 91.209.>> Its good to go back and forth like this becuase this is how you learn the> darn regs!>> chris>>> 91.209 Aircraft lights.>>> No person may:>> (a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the> period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3> statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -- >> (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;>> (2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night> flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- >> (i) Is clearly illuminated;>> (ii) Has lighted position lights; or>> (iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;>> (3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -- >> (i) Has lighted anchor lights; or>> (ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or>> (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision lightsystem,> unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision> lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,> because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to> turn the lights off.>> [Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]>>> 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.>>> (a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this> section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying> passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight> crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three> landings within the preceding 90 days, and -- >> (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and>> (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft ofthe> same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the> aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and> landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with atailwheel.>> (2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) ofthis> section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under dayVFR> or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the> aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.>> (3) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section> may be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that> is -- >> (i) Approved by the Administrator for landings; and>> (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.>> (b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in> paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an> aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour aftersunset> and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that> person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop> during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before> sunrise, and -- >> (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and>> (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft ofthe> same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).>> (2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section> may be accomplished in a flight simulator that is -- >> (i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if the visual> system is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1)of> this section; and>> (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.>> [Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40898,July> 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-106, 64 FR 23529, Apr. 30, 1999; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR> 54559, Sept. 17, 2003]>>> ----- Original Message -----
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet>>> Ah kevin. The light reg in 91 says "sunrise to sunset". It nevermentions> the word "night". Granted night is defined in Part 1 but it appliessolely> to 91.205. Part 91.205 is titled "Powered civil aircraft with standard> category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment> requirements" and the question was about an experimetnal airworthiness> certificate, not a standard category airworthiness certificate so we can> ignore part 91.205(c) and revert to the "sunrise to sunset" of 91.209.>> Its good to go back and forth like this becuase this is how you learn the> darn regs!>> chris>>> 91.209 Aircraft lights.>>> No person may:>> (a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the> period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3> statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -- >> (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;>> (2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night> flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- >> (i) Is clearly illuminated;>> (ii) Has lighted position lights; or>> (iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;>> (3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -- >> (i) Has lighted anchor lights; or>> (ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or>> (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision lightsystem,> unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision> lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,> because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to> turn the lights off.>> [Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]>>> 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.>>> (a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this> section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying> passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight> crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three> landings within the preceding 90 days, and -- >> (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and>> (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft ofthe> same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the> aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and> landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with atailwheel.>> (2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) ofthis> section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under dayVFR> or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the> aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.>> (3) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section> may be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that> is -- >> (i) Approved by the Administrator for landings; and>> (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.>> (b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in> paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an> aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour aftersunset> and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that> person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop> during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before> sunrise, and -- >> (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and>> (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft ofthe> same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).>> (2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section> may be accomplished in a flight simulator that is -- >> (i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if the visual> system is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1)of> this section; and>> (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.>> [Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40898,July> 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-106, 64 FR 23529, Apr. 30, 1999; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR> 54559, Sept. 17, 2003]>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet
Original Posted By:> > "Kevin Holcomb"
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet> >> > >> > Ah kevin. The light reg in 91 says "sunrise to sunset". It never> mentions> > the word "night". Granted night is defined in Part 1 but it applies> solely> > to 91.205. Part 91.205 is titled "Powered civil aircraft withstandard> > category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment> > requirements" and the question was about an experimetnal airworthiness> > certificate, not a standard category airworthiness certificate so we can> > ignore part 91.205(c) and revert to the "sunrise to sunset" of 91.209.> >> > Its good to go back and forth like this becuase this is how you learnthe> > darn regs!> >> > chris> >> >> > 91.209 Aircraft lights.> >> >> > No person may:> >> > (a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the> > period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3> > statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -- > >> > (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;> >> > (2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night> > flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- > >> > (i) Is clearly illuminated;> >> > (ii) Has lighted position lights; or> >> > (iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;> >> > (3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -- > >> > (i) Has lighted anchor lights; or> >> > (ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or> >> > (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light> system,> > unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision> > lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,> > because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safetyto> > turn the lights off.> >> > [Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]> >> >> > 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.> >> >> > (a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this> > section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying> > passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight> > crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three> > landings within the preceding 90 days, and -- > >> > (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and> >> > (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of> the> > same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, ifthe> > aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and> > landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a> tailwheel.> >> > (2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of> this> > section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day> VFR> > or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the> > aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.> >> > (3) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of thissection> > may be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that> > is -- > >> > (i) Approved by the Administrator for landings; and> >> > (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> > center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.> >> > (b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in> > paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command ofan> > aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after> sunset> > and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 daysthat> > person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a fullstop> > during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before> > sunrise, and -- > >> > (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and> >> > (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of> the> > same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).> >> > (2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of thissection> > may be accomplished in a flight simulator that is -- > >> > (i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if thevisual> > system is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1)> of> > this section; and> >> > (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> > center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.> >> > [Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40898,> July> > 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-106, 64 FR 23529, Apr. 30, 1999; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR> > 54559, Sept. 17, 2003]> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nav lghts on a Piet> >> > >> > Ah kevin. The light reg in 91 says "sunrise to sunset". It never> mentions> > the word "night". Granted night is defined in Part 1 but it applies> solely> > to 91.205. Part 91.205 is titled "Powered civil aircraft withstandard> > category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment> > requirements" and the question was about an experimetnal airworthiness> > certificate, not a standard category airworthiness certificate so we can> > ignore part 91.205(c) and revert to the "sunrise to sunset" of 91.209.> >> > Its good to go back and forth like this becuase this is how you learnthe> > darn regs!> >> > chris> >> >> > 91.209 Aircraft lights.> >> >> > No person may:> >> > (a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the> > period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3> > statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -- > >> > (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;> >> > (2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night> > flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -- > >> > (i) Is clearly illuminated;> >> > (ii) Has lighted position lights; or> >> > (iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;> >> > (3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -- > >> > (i) Has lighted anchor lights; or> >> > (ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or> >> > (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light> system,> > unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision> > lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,> > because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safetyto> > turn the lights off.> >> > [Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]> >> >> > 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.> >> >> > (a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this> > section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying> > passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight> > crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three> > landings within the preceding 90 days, and -- > >> > (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and> >> > (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of> the> > same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, ifthe> > aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and> > landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a> tailwheel.> >> > (2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of> this> > section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day> VFR> > or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the> > aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.> >> > (3) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of thissection> > may be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that> > is -- > >> > (i) Approved by the Administrator for landings; and> >> > (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> > center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.> >> > (b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in> > paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command ofan> > aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after> sunset> > and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 daysthat> > person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a fullstop> > during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before> > sunrise, and -- > >> > (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and> >> > (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of> the> > same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).> >> > (2) The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (b)(1) of thissection> > may be accomplished in a flight simulator that is -- > >> > (i) Approved by the Administrator for takeoffs and landings, if thevisual> > system is adjusted to represent the period described in paragraph (b)(1)> of> > this section; and> >> > (ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training> > center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.> >> > [Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40898,> July> > 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-106, 64 FR 23529, Apr. 30, 1999; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR> > 54559, Sept. 17, 2003]> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----