Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I've decided to "bump up" the top of my center section fuel tank, mothstyle, to get another hour.Now that the top will visible, I want it to look decent.My problem is that when I weld the cap flange to the top of the curvedsection, it distorts the top something fierce.I'm tig welding aluminum. I'm going to try again with the top flat on mywelding table and the flange clamped down. I was thinking I'd cut the holelater which might help keep things in position.Any ideas on how to get a nice distortion free top?Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "walt"
Douwe,Any chance you could snap a picture to show what kind of distortion you're getting,and what the application looks like? It would really help in terms of offeringpertinent advise. Is the tank fully welded other than the filler, or isthe top of the tank not yet attached to the rest of the tank?The usual way to deal with welding distortion is twofold, especially with aluminum,which requires more heat to weld than steel or stainless.First, you should expect that there will be some distortion. If you are expectingto have a perfect, smooth, distortion-free weld that requires no post-weldcorrection, you are likely to be disappointed every time. Knowing the ways thatwelds will act allows you to use methods that can minimize that distortion.Using TIG will help, because the weld is more concentrated. The first step isto tack-weld the two pieces together in as many places as possible, to minimizemovement as you do the final seam welding. After the pieces are tacked together,check for positioning, and adjust with a small hammer as required. When youare happy with the positioning, you can weld off the entire joint. Since thisweld's primary function is to be liquid-proof, rather than structural, makethe welds as small as possible.Secondly, the most effective method of removing weld distortion is through theuse of a sophisticated set of instruments called a hammer and a backing bar (orblock). The extreme, localized heat of welding puts a lot of stresses into themetal in and around the weld. In the areas where the weld shrinks the metal,you need to stretch it back to it's pre-weld state. This is where the hammerand backing bar come in.Of course, the best approach might be to take an entirely different approach, andinstall a flanged filler neck, which would be attached with mechanical fasteners- eliminating the welding, and all the distortion that goes with it. Here'sa link to the way Jim Markle did his. Looks good to me.http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildL ... eID=52Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:38:51 -0400
Douwe,Any chance you could snap a picture to show what kind of distortion you're getting,and what the application looks like? It would really help in terms of offeringpertinent advise. Is the tank fully welded other than the filler, or isthe top of the tank not yet attached to the rest of the tank?The usual way to deal with welding distortion is twofold, especially with aluminum,which requires more heat to weld than steel or stainless.First, you should expect that there will be some distortion. If you are expectingto have a perfect, smooth, distortion-free weld that requires no post-weldcorrection, you are likely to be disappointed every time. Knowing the ways thatwelds will act allows you to use methods that can minimize that distortion.Using TIG will help, because the weld is more concentrated. The first step isto tack-weld the two pieces together in as many places as possible, to minimizemovement as you do the final seam welding. After the pieces are tacked together,check for positioning, and adjust with a small hammer as required. When youare happy with the positioning, you can weld off the entire joint. Since thisweld's primary function is to be liquid-proof, rather than structural, makethe welds as small as possible.Secondly, the most effective method of removing weld distortion is through theuse of a sophisticated set of instruments called a hammer and a backing bar (orblock). The extreme, localized heat of welding puts a lot of stresses into themetal in and around the weld. In the areas where the weld shrinks the metal,you need to stretch it back to it's pre-weld state. This is where the hammerand backing bar come in.Of course, the best approach might be to take an entirely different approach, andinstall a flanged filler neck, which would be attached with mechanical fasteners- eliminating the welding, and all the distortion that goes with it. Here'sa link to the way Jim Markle did his. Looks good to me.http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildL ... eID=52Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:38:51 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "mr-fix-all"
Everyone:Had a wonderful time at Brodhead, but didn't get to talk to everyone, always a disappointment. It is amazing that no matter how many times you go and look at often the same Piets, depending on what point you are in on your own project, you see new details that you never noticed before. I learned a LOT this trip!After returning, I blasted, primed, and painted all of my steel parts (well, almost all). Today, I started bolting things on PERMANENTLY!! Before I did, though, I weighed my fuselage. Mine is a short fuselage, with only minor modifications. No fittings whatsoever, only wood and varnish, my completed fuselage weighs 33.6 lbs. according to my digital bathroom scale. I know there have been postings on here with fuselage weights, but I am too lazy to look them up right now. How does this compare to others???My biggest problem is that I will not have another day off until next Thursday to go out and work again, bummer!!Gene________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Everyone:Had a wonderful time at Brodhead, but didn't get to talk to everyone, always a disappointment. It is amazing that no matter how many times you go and look at often the same Piets, depending on what point you are in on your own project, you see new details that you never noticed before. I learned a LOT this trip!After returning, I blasted, primed, and painted all of my steel parts (well, almost all). Today, I started bolting things on PERMANENTLY!! Before I did, though, I weighed my fuselage. Mine is a short fuselage, with only minor modifications. No fittings whatsoever, only wood and varnish, my completed fuselage weighs 33.6 lbs. according to my digital bathroom scale. I know there have been postings on here with fuselage weights, but I am too lazy to look them up right now. How does this compare to others???My biggest problem is that I will not have another day off until next Thursday to go out and work again, bummer!!Gene________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
I was reading you post about the aluminum warping when you weld it, a friend ofmine works for LifeLine ambulance where they scratch build ambulances. theyhad the same problem when welding the window and door frames in the large panelsof aluminum. The solution was surprisingly low tech. They have large pieces of 2x6 rectangular aluminum tubing that they have cappedon both ends which they filled with water then freeze them they clamp the frozentubes about 1 inch away from the seam and weld. works like a charm.Jake--------"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, andthose that matter don't mind" Dr. SeussRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I was reading you post about the aluminum warping when you weld it, a friend ofmine works for LifeLine ambulance where they scratch build ambulances. theyhad the same problem when welding the window and door frames in the large panelsof aluminum. The solution was surprisingly low tech. They have large pieces of 2x6 rectangular aluminum tubing that they have cappedon both ends which they filled with water then freeze them they clamp the frozentubes about 1 inch away from the seam and weld. works like a charm.Jake--------"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, andthose that matter don't mind" Dr. SeussRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: welding
Original Posted By:
Thanks for the welding tips.Bill, I am welding the flange on the top before attaching to the tank. Ithink I may have gotten sloppy and let the flange move away from the sheetas I tacked it.Jake, great tip!! i had thought something like that might soak up the heatbut hadn't thought of such a clean solution.Love this forum!!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the welding tips.Bill, I am welding the flange on the top before attaching to the tank. Ithink I may have gotten sloppy and let the flange move away from the sheetas I tacked it.Jake, great tip!! i had thought something like that might soak up the heatbut hadn't thought of such a clean solution.Love this forum!!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: my project
Original Posted By: Ben Ramler
Ben,Why do you need to modify the wing rib jig? I thought the recommended method of construction was to build the ailerons in-place and then cut them free. As I understand it this helps the ailerons line up perfectly with the rest of the wing. This would mean all the ribs are built the same.Chris TracySacramento, CaWebsite at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 08:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
Ben,Why do you need to modify the wing rib jig? I thought the recommended method of construction was to build the ailerons in-place and then cut them free. As I understand it this helps the ailerons line up perfectly with the rest of the wing. This would mean all the ribs are built the same.Chris TracySacramento, CaWebsite at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 08:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
Douwe,I would also avoid cutting the hole till your finished.Jake"Douwe Blumberg" Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com08/02/2008 09:54 AMPlease respond topietenpol-list(at)matronics.comTo"pietenpolgroup" ccSubjectPietenpol-List: weldingThanks for the welding tips.Bill, I am welding the flange on the top before attaching to the tank. Ithink I may have gotten sloppy and let the flange move away from the sheetas I tacked it.Jake, great tip!! i had thought something like that might soak up the heatbut hadn't thought of such a clean solution.Love this forum!!Douwe________________________________________________________________________This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System.________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 09:56:51 -0600
Douwe,I would also avoid cutting the hole till your finished.Jake"Douwe Blumberg" Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com08/02/2008 09:54 AMPlease respond topietenpol-list(at)matronics.comTo"pietenpolgroup" ccSubjectPietenpol-List: weldingThanks for the welding tips.Bill, I am welding the flange on the top before attaching to the tank. Ithink I may have gotten sloppy and let the flange move away from the sheetas I tacked it.Jake, great tip!! i had thought something like that might soak up the heatbut hadn't thought of such a clean solution.Love this forum!!Douwe________________________________________________________________________This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System.________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 09:56:51 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: my project
Original Posted By: "walt"
Re: Pietenpol-List: my project
Original Posted By: Ben Ramler
Re: Pietenpol-List: my project
Original Posted By: "walt"
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
got any pictures?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
got any pictures?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Hey all!I've been completely out of touch with everything for about three weeks asI've been finishing the NYC monument and installing it. Just got back andsaw some nice comments on the forum and wanted to say thank you!, andapologize for being tardy in responding. I just haven't been around mycomputer.It's been a wonderful opportunity and experience working with our SpecialOperations community, very humbling when you begin to learn what they areoff doing for us while we are safely sleeping in our beds at night.Main thing I'm looking forward to is getting back to the Piet!!Thanks again!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Hey all!I've been completely out of touch with everything for about three weeks asI've been finishing the NYC monument and installing it. Just got back andsaw some nice comments on the forum and wanted to say thank you!, andapologize for being tardy in responding. I just haven't been around mycomputer.It's been a wonderful opportunity and experience working with our SpecialOperations community, very humbling when you begin to learn what they areoff doing for us while we are safely sleeping in our beds at night.Main thing I'm looking forward to is getting back to the Piet!!Thanks again!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "g. doe"
Hello Gary,What are the minor and major axis measurements? How about the length?Thanks!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 18:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Hello Gary,What are the minor and major axis measurements? How about the length?Thanks!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 18:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
GN1 Aircamper project for sale on barnstormes. I can't find time to finish it. I would like to see it fly. Thanks...________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
GN1 Aircamper project for sale on barnstormes. I can't find time to finish it. I would like to see it fly. Thanks...________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: "The real bike Mike"
Jim;The turtledeck cover could be a hinged or removable aluminum wrap rather than woodenstringers covered with fabric and it could be very light, even with someangle stiffeners on the inside. However, as others have noted, you will findthat you sit on that area and brace your weight onto it with your hands whenyou enter and exit the cockpit. Aluminum tends to be unforgiving when you pushit in past the point that it springs back.That's the thing about building these airplanes: you get to make your own callson how it goes together, in thousands of little ways. Even two "per plans" Pietsare never identical.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Jim;The turtledeck cover could be a hinged or removable aluminum wrap rather than woodenstringers covered with fabric and it could be very light, even with someangle stiffeners on the inside. However, as others have noted, you will findthat you sit on that area and brace your weight onto it with your hands whenyou enter and exit the cockpit. Aluminum tends to be unforgiving when you pushit in past the point that it springs back.That's the thing about building these airplanes: you get to make your own callson how it goes together, in thousands of little ways. Even two "per plans" Pietsare never identical.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks, Gary.I think I'll let you sell them to someone closer.Mike _____
Thanks, Gary.I think I'll let you sell them to someone closer.Mike _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
If you're looking for a pure 1930s experience then leave the credit card and cellphone home, too. May as well skip the tracking devices we talked about lastweek, too.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
If you're looking for a pure 1930s experience then leave the credit card and cellphone home, too. May as well skip the tracking devices we talked about lastweek, too.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: Greg Bacon
Those pictures made me smile, Douwe.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:09:17 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Those pictures made me smile, Douwe.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:09:17 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Very cool stuff. Just the way I would do it. Keep up the good work and have fundoing it. Great info.Thank you,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Very cool stuff. Just the way I would do it. Keep up the good work and have fundoing it. Great info.Thank you,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
John: you're kidding, right? You're not going to sell the Piet that you're justabout ready to fly??!!--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
John: you're kidding, right? You're not going to sell the Piet that you're justabout ready to fly??!!--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: John Kuhfahl
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Pietenpol-List: Re: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblett
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CENTER SECTIONCENTER SECTION RIGHT SIDE UP SHOWING KT76 IN CORRECT POSITIONCENTER SECTION SHOWING TANK COVER WITH TRANSPONDER ANTENNA MOUNTEDTED STONE________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblettairfoi
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CENTER SECTIONCENTER SECTION RIGHT SIDE UP SHOWING KT76 IN CORRECT POSITIONCENTER SECTION SHOWING TANK COVER WITH TRANSPONDER ANTENNA MOUNTEDTED STONE________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblettairfoi
Pietenpol-List: Re: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblett
Original Posted By: "Mark Roberts"
PF and Don,Excellent work. Thanks for sharing.This is exactly the type of comparison that has been needed to provide some clear,unbiased information. The fact that the two aircraft are so similar is key.The only thing that I can see skewing the results is that the Riblett wingappears to be red. :)Looking forward to seeing the next phase of results, as Don's plane gets "brokenin".Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblettairfoi
PF and Don,Excellent work. Thanks for sharing.This is exactly the type of comparison that has been needed to provide some clear,unbiased information. The fact that the two aircraft are so similar is key.The only thing that I can see skewing the results is that the Riblett wingappears to be red. :)Looking forward to seeing the next phase of results, as Don's plane gets "brokenin".Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblettairfoi
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
And we all know that red makes cars and planes fly faster. So that might accountfor the rpm difference between the two planes :)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
And we all know that red makes cars and planes fly faster. So that might accountfor the rpm difference between the two planes :)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Comparison test between Pietenpol airfoil and Riblett
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Very interesting, PF. Please keep us updated. I must admit, I expected tosee some advantage to the Riblett, but there doesn't appear to be much ifany. Perhaps further testing will reveal something. Otherwise it lookslike, once again, that old Pietenpol fellow really knew what he was doingwhen he designed this airplane.I agree with Mike Cuy - looks like this would be an excellent topic for aforum at Brodhead.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Very interesting, PF. Please keep us updated. I must admit, I expected tosee some advantage to the Riblett, but there doesn't appear to be much ifany. Perhaps further testing will reveal something. Otherwise it lookslike, once again, that old Pietenpol fellow really knew what he was doingwhen he designed this airplane.I agree with Mike Cuy - looks like this would be an excellent topic for aforum at Brodhead.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title
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