Original Posted By: Jane and Fred
Fellow Piet builders/flyers,While no flying Pietenpols showed up [ mine is based here on the airport ] we did have many Piet builders and potential builders on hand. Many came seeking information on building and also learning about corvair engines. Learning about engines was easy as there were 10 completed and test run during the weekend. Others were in various stages of completion by Sunday afternoon. Don Harper, Tim Freer and I held a "building tips" type forum on Saturday afternoon in my hangar. I also gave many rides in my Piet. I'll send pictures to Doc and Dee for the newsletter.One thing I particulary wanted to mention was that among the 70 attendees was a gentleman by the name of Chuck Campbell who brought his partially completed corvair engine that he plans to put on the Pietenpol he is building. One might ask, whats unusual about that?Chuck is 87 years old, flew F-6's in WWII. If Chuck can do all that at 87, that should be inspiration enough to keep younger builders going.P. F. Beck________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:23:02 -0800
--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:23:02 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "Brett Phillips"
Keri Ann is right on. The Winfield repros seem to have one of the best combustionchamber designs of the available high compression heads. The fact that theyare available in Aluminum from Red's headers and Sacramento Vintage Ford makesthem a logical choice for Ford powered Piets. Be careful about your choiceof compression ratio though, too much will cause detonation which quickly destroysbabbitt. Most of the car guys agree that 6:1 works the best for relativelystock engines. I believe the Winfield heads from Sacramento Vintage Fordcan be machined to reduce the compression ratio in case Red's headers is outof stock. http://www.vintageford.com/sect_search. ... eadsHaving said all that, I don't own one of these heads (wish I did though). Theengine I'm building up will use the Dan Price head that came with the project.I also have a Dick McKee head from the mid '80's that will likely remain a landlubberdue to a spotty reputation.Best Regards,Brett PhillipsStrasburg, VANX311GPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Keri Ann is right on. The Winfield repros seem to have one of the best combustionchamber designs of the available high compression heads. The fact that theyare available in Aluminum from Red's headers and Sacramento Vintage Ford makesthem a logical choice for Ford powered Piets. Be careful about your choiceof compression ratio though, too much will cause detonation which quickly destroysbabbitt. Most of the car guys agree that 6:1 works the best for relativelystock engines. I believe the Winfield heads from Sacramento Vintage Fordcan be machined to reduce the compression ratio in case Red's headers is outof stock. http://www.vintageford.com/sect_search. ... eadsHaving said all that, I don't own one of these heads (wish I did though). Theengine I'm building up will use the Dan Price head that came with the project.I also have a Dick McKee head from the mid '80's that will likely remain a landlubberdue to a spotty reputation.Best Regards,Brett PhillipsStrasburg, VANX311GPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "899PM"
Here's a thread from Fordbarn with some other sources:http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea ... =52395Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Here's a thread from Fordbarn with some other sources:http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea ... =52395Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
Red's has these cast a couple times a year to meet demand. I waited several monthsfor a 7:1. I am running inserted mains and rods. Because my block had beendecked a couple times in its life, I have piston protrusion of about .040". Ihad to machine piston clearance in my head to accommodate the piston protrusionand the torqued head gasket thickness. I had several conversations with LarryBrumfield and he was very adamant about a resultant squish area of about .040"-.060".I machined clearance to result in a squish of .050", which yields aCR of 6.7:1(which is exactly what the Funk heads were). My engine ran like theproverbial "swiss watch" prior to the fiber cam gear self destructing.--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Red's has these cast a couple times a year to meet demand. I waited several monthsfor a 7:1. I am running inserted mains and rods. Because my block had beendecked a couple times in its life, I have piston protrusion of about .040". Ihad to machine piston clearance in my head to accommodate the piston protrusionand the torqued head gasket thickness. I had several conversations with LarryBrumfield and he was very adamant about a resultant squish area of about .040"-.060".I machined clearance to result in a squish of .050", which yields aCR of 6.7:1(which is exactly what the Funk heads were). My engine ran like theproverbial "swiss watch" prior to the fiber cam gear self destructing.--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "bender"
My Model-A used a Dan Price 6:1 Aluminum head. Actual HP was 59 and turning anAsh prop of 82" Dia. x 42 P with a 6 inch wide blade chord @ 1800 RPM in flight,speed 73-MPH.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
My Model-A used a Dan Price 6:1 Aluminum head. Actual HP was 59 and turning anAsh prop of 82" Dia. x 42 P with a 6 inch wide blade chord @ 1800 RPM in flight,speed 73-MPH.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "Brett Phillips"
My engine ran like the proverbial "swiss watch" prior to the fiber cam gear selfdestructing.can you elaborate.. ? i thought the fiber gears were OK... was there a problem ?or the gear just broke ?jeff in louisville.... close to running my ARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
My engine ran like the proverbial "swiss watch" prior to the fiber cam gear selfdestructing.can you elaborate.. ? i thought the fiber gears were OK... was there a problem ?or the gear just broke ?jeff in louisville.... close to running my ARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "Brett Phillips"
Keri Ann: I'd like to chat with you some time about the prop you were using. I also have some other questions if you have time.Jeff: Do a search on the Fordbarn site for timing gears, and you will find thatmany folks in the car hobby are known to carry a spare cam gear on long trips.I have gathered that some reproduction fiber gears are not made to the samestandards that Ford used. Aluminum and Bronze gears are available from severalsources. They may be a little noisier though. I have an aluminum gear fromBratton's.BrettRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Keri Ann: I'd like to chat with you some time about the prop you were using. I also have some other questions if you have time.Jeff: Do a search on the Fordbarn site for timing gears, and you will find thatmany folks in the car hobby are known to carry a spare cam gear on long trips.I have gathered that some reproduction fiber gears are not made to the samestandards that Ford used. Aluminum and Bronze gears are available from severalsources. They may be a little noisier though. I have an aluminum gear fromBratton's.BrettRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Papa Mike:Those Funk fellows were pretty slick, so I'm sure they had it pretty well figuredout. There are several guys who build Model A's for race cars that say a babbittedengine can be built to reliably run over 8:1 compression. They say thatthe key is to be careful with ignition timing and avoid any situation wherethe engine pings or detonates. How was/is your engine timed? I've heard severaldifferent settings suggested, anywhere from 28 to 32 degrees BTDC.BrettRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Papa Mike:Those Funk fellows were pretty slick, so I'm sure they had it pretty well figuredout. There are several guys who build Model A's for race cars that say a babbittedengine can be built to reliably run over 8:1 compression. They say thatthe key is to be careful with ignition timing and avoid any situation wherethe engine pings or detonates. How was/is your engine timed? I've heard severaldifferent settings suggested, anywhere from 28 to 32 degrees BTDC.BrettRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: Lawrence Williams
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum head
Original Posted By: Lawrence Williams
Hey Larry- Not so fast. Mine is nose heavy with the Aluminum head.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Hey Larry- Not so fast. Mine is nose heavy with the Aluminum head.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
Larry has a good point! If your airplane is already tail heavy, a good cast ironhead would be a much better fix than adding lead to the nose. The iron headsare thought to be more stable and resistant to warping too. Mr Pietenpol'sfirst Air Campers were all flown with the stock iron heads. It wasn't untilthe early-mid thirties that he began recommending the high compression heads (whichhappened to be aluminum).Regarding propellers: The propeller Mr Pietenpol recommended for the Model A inthe Flying and Glider manual article was a WWI surplus item intended for useon the 28 HP Lawrance powered Breese Penguin like this one:http://www.woodenpropeller.com/LangLawrance.htmlNote that it measures 2000mm x 1000mm (78.74 x 39.37). Mr Pietenpol later revisedhis recommendation to a smaller diameter and steeper pitch. I wonder if thiswas for economic reasons (no more cheap surplus props), or performance reasons?I know, more questions than answers....Brett PhillipsStrasburg, VANX311GPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Larry has a good point! If your airplane is already tail heavy, a good cast ironhead would be a much better fix than adding lead to the nose. The iron headsare thought to be more stable and resistant to warping too. Mr Pietenpol'sfirst Air Campers were all flown with the stock iron heads. It wasn't untilthe early-mid thirties that he began recommending the high compression heads (whichhappened to be aluminum).Regarding propellers: The propeller Mr Pietenpol recommended for the Model A inthe Flying and Glider manual article was a WWI surplus item intended for useon the 28 HP Lawrance powered Breese Penguin like this one:http://www.woodenpropeller.com/LangLawrance.htmlNote that it measures 2000mm x 1000mm (78.74 x 39.37). Mr Pietenpol later revisedhis recommendation to a smaller diameter and steeper pitch. I wonder if thiswas for economic reasons (no more cheap surplus props), or performance reasons?I know, more questions than answers....Brett PhillipsStrasburg, VANX311GPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
.... if using an aluminum head on the Model-A, best to lengthen your motor mountto balance her. Heavy aft CG depends more on the pilots weight in rear cockpit.You want to be more in the torque curve on the Model-A, 1600-1800 RPM.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
.... if using an aluminum head on the Model-A, best to lengthen your motor mountto balance her. Heavy aft CG depends more on the pilots weight in rear cockpit.You want to be more in the torque curve on the Model-A, 1600-1800 RPM.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle