Original Posted By: "rorichts"
I used some simple side plates like a master link with clevis pins through them.poppedthe other side on and cotter pins through the clevis pins.actually evenwent to the trouble of drilling out 1/4" stainless tubing to slip over the clevispins and cut them just long enough to sleeve the pins and give enough clearancebetween the plates they don't bind the thimbles. probably overkill. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: anticipated cruise?
Pietenpol-List: anticipated cruise?
Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron quick disconnect
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
GreetingsNew to the group, glad to be on board.I am in the process of buying a completed Piet. with a Corvair for the power plant.What can or should I expect for a cruise rpm and cruise speed?I realize the prop impacts the outcome but I'm looking for averages so I can determinewhat length and pitch should be used.Thank you in advance for you patience and help Your input is appreciatedregardsrichRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron quick disconnect
GreetingsNew to the group, glad to be on board.I am in the process of buying a completed Piet. with a Corvair for the power plant.What can or should I expect for a cruise rpm and cruise speed?I realize the prop impacts the outcome but I'm looking for averages so I can determinewhat length and pitch should be used.Thank you in advance for you patience and help Your input is appreciatedregardsrichRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron quick disconnect
Original Posted By: "Peter W Johnson"
In order to get a copy of the UK Piet design, all you have to do is move to theUK or Australia, and send Jim Wills 200 Pounds, and he will gladly sell you aset of complete LAA approved plans which include the aileron quick-disconnectsystem, as well as a built-up spar, and a beefed-up split-axle landing gear design.Unfortunately, if you live outside of the UK or Australia, you're out ofluck.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
In order to get a copy of the UK Piet design, all you have to do is move to theUK or Australia, and send Jim Wills 200 Pounds, and he will gladly sell you aset of complete LAA approved plans which include the aileron quick-disconnectsystem, as well as a built-up spar, and a beefed-up split-axle landing gear design.Unfortunately, if you live outside of the UK or Australia, you're out ofluck.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: aileron quick disconnect
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Paul,I used the quick connect system on my Piet. The plans came from Jim Wills inthe UK.Check out my web site for more details (http://www.cpc-world.com).There are some pictures of the system on my web site. Have a look at page 9of the photos and start at image IMG_0965.JPG, about half way down the page.If I were to build another Piet, I would not bother with the quick connect.It adds weight, complexity and is certainly not a QUICK connect system. Itworks fine but it still takes two people an hour or so to remove and pack upthe wings. If you have a hangar then they are not needed.Hope that helps.PeterWonthaggi Australiahttp://www.cpc-world.com-----Original Message-----
Paul,I used the quick connect system on my Piet. The plans came from Jim Wills inthe UK.Check out my web site for more details (http://www.cpc-world.com).There are some pictures of the system on my web site. Have a look at page 9of the photos and start at image IMG_0965.JPG, about half way down the page.If I were to build another Piet, I would not bother with the quick connect.It adds weight, complexity and is certainly not a QUICK connect system. Itworks fine but it still takes two people an hour or so to remove and pack upthe wings. If you have a hangar then they are not needed.Hope that helps.PeterWonthaggi Australiahttp://www.cpc-world.com-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: Amsafetyc
Thanks to all who responded to my question. It is what I really like about this group. I tried one by cutting with my side grinder cut off wheel. It worked but still a little sticky. I hope to pick up a cut off wheel for my dremel tool this weekend. Happy flying and building to all.Ralph________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: anticipated cruise?
Thanks to all who responded to my question. It is what I really like about this group. I tried one by cutting with my side grinder cut off wheel. It worked but still a little sticky. I hope to pick up a cut off wheel for my dremel tool this weekend. Happy flying and building to all.Ralph________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Greetings new to the group and welcome. I can't tell you about average corvair performance however it would be nice ifyou told us a bit about yourself. Like who are you a real nameWhere are you locatedTail number Who's Piet you're buyingWill you be attending Brodhead this yearJust some basics would be nice, not required but nice informationThanks John RecineNX895JR reservedDo not archineSent from my iPhoneOn May 24, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "rorichts" wrote:> > Greetings> New to the group, glad to be on board.> I am in the process of buying a completed Piet. with a Corvair for the powerplant.> > What can or should I expect for a cruise rpm and cruise speed?> I realize the prop impacts the outcome but I'm looking for averages so I candetermine what length and pitch should be used.> Thank you in advance for you patience and help > Your input is appreciated> regards> rich> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 850#373850> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Greetings new to the group and welcome. I can't tell you about average corvair performance however it would be nice ifyou told us a bit about yourself. Like who are you a real nameWhere are you locatedTail number Who's Piet you're buyingWill you be attending Brodhead this yearJust some basics would be nice, not required but nice informationThanks John RecineNX895JR reservedDo not archineSent from my iPhoneOn May 24, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "rorichts" wrote:> > Greetings> New to the group, glad to be on board.> I am in the process of buying a completed Piet. with a Corvair for the powerplant.> > What can or should I expect for a cruise rpm and cruise speed?> I realize the prop impacts the outcome but I'm looking for averages so I candetermine what length and pitch should be used.> Thank you in advance for you patience and help > Your input is appreciated> regards> rich> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 850#373850> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "rorichts"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tony Bingelis on cable cuttingMy Uncle Tony.....er...okay..well Tony's books give some great alternatives to cutting cables, all of whichhave been covered here but I liked the bike shop cable cutting tool idea as the best bang for the buck.What strikes me about this list is that pre-Matronics Pietenpol list (when I was starting to build my Pietenpol)I really only had the Bingelis books to answer my questions and hands down, I could have built the Pietenpolwithout ever having the Matronics list because of the vast and complete information contained in those books.Thankfully we have both sources of great homebuilding info. (and many more thanks to the internet)I used to love hearing the old wives tales about what I should or shouldn't do on certain parts of the airplane andthen finding out they were way off base after reading up on the subject in the Bingelis books.Okay, that's enough of my monthly sales pitch for my Uncle Tony's books:)Mike C.Best $89 dollars you'll ever spend on building your airplane. http://www.shopeaa.com/bingelissetof4.aspx[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CD3A5A.870FF510]________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tony Bingelis on cable cuttingMy Uncle Tony.....er...okay..well Tony's books give some great alternatives to cutting cables, all of whichhave been covered here but I liked the bike shop cable cutting tool idea as the best bang for the buck.What strikes me about this list is that pre-Matronics Pietenpol list (when I was starting to build my Pietenpol)I really only had the Bingelis books to answer my questions and hands down, I could have built the Pietenpolwithout ever having the Matronics list because of the vast and complete information contained in those books.Thankfully we have both sources of great homebuilding info. (and many more thanks to the internet)I used to love hearing the old wives tales about what I should or shouldn't do on certain parts of the airplane andthen finding out they were way off base after reading up on the subject in the Bingelis books.Okay, that's enough of my monthly sales pitch for my Uncle Tony's books:)Mike C.Best $89 dollars you'll ever spend on building your airplane. http://www.shopeaa.com/bingelissetof4.aspx[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CD3A5A.870FF510]________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Amsafetyc wrote:> Greetings new to the group and welcome. > > I can't tell you about average corvair performance however it would be nice ifyou told us a bit about yourself. > > Like who are you a real name Robert Richtsmeier> Where are you located Ackley Iowa> Tail number don't have> Who's Piet you're buying still working with owner so not at liberty> Will you be attending Brodhead this year hope to fly in if I buy and get theseunanswered issues solved the plane has performance problem but interested inplane anyway and sure they can be overcome> > Just some basics would be nice, not required but nice information> > Thanks > > John Recine> NX895JR reserved> > Robert> anwers about the expected performance would be helpful so i can make the correctdecisions to get the plane performance up to par would be nice also> > Do not archine> > Sent from my iPhone> > On May 24, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "rorichts" wrote:> > > > > > > > Greetings> > New to the group, glad to be on board.> > I am in the process of buying a completed Piet. with a Corvair for the powerplant.> > > > What can or should I expect for a cruise rpm and cruise speed?> > I realize the prop impacts the outcome but I'm looking for averages so I candetermine what length and pitch should be used.> > Thank you in advance for you patience and help > > Your input is appreciated> > regards> > rich> > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here:> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 850#373850> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Amsafetyc wrote:> Greetings new to the group and welcome. > > I can't tell you about average corvair performance however it would be nice ifyou told us a bit about yourself. > > Like who are you a real name Robert Richtsmeier> Where are you located Ackley Iowa> Tail number don't have> Who's Piet you're buying still working with owner so not at liberty> Will you be attending Brodhead this year hope to fly in if I buy and get theseunanswered issues solved the plane has performance problem but interested inplane anyway and sure they can be overcome> > Just some basics would be nice, not required but nice information> > Thanks > > John Recine> NX895JR reserved> > Robert> anwers about the expected performance would be helpful so i can make the correctdecisions to get the plane performance up to par would be nice also> > Do not archine> > Sent from my iPhone> > On May 24, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "rorichts" wrote:> > > > > > > > Greetings> > New to the group, glad to be on board.> > I am in the process of buying a completed Piet. with a Corvair for the powerplant.> > > > What can or should I expect for a cruise rpm and cruise speed?> > I realize the prop impacts the outcome but I'm looking for averages so I candetermine what length and pitch should be used.> > Thank you in advance for you patience and help > > Your input is appreciated> > regards> > rich> > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here:> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 850#373850> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "rorichts"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?welcome to the group Robert,I fly a corvair powered piet. I cruise at about 2400 to 2500 rpm with a cruise speed of around 75 to 80 mph. that is with a tn. prop. 64/34 prop. climb is around 400 to 600 fpm depending on the air.Randy BushNX294RB________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?welcome to the group Robert,I fly a corvair powered piet. I cruise at about 2400 to 2500 rpm with a cruise speed of around 75 to 80 mph. that is with a tn. prop. 64/34 prop. climb is around 400 to 600 fpm depending on the air.Randy BushNX294RB________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
[quote="RBush96589(at)aol.com"]welcome to the group Robert, I fly a corvair powered piet. I cruise at about 2400 to 2500 rpm with a cruisespeed of around 75 to 80 mph. that is with a tn. prop. 64/34 prop. climb isaround 400 to 600 fpm depending on the air. Randy Bush NX294RB> RandyThanks that is very useful help now I can compare with what is being offered andsee what I need to do differently. If anyone else would care to chime in itwould be appreciatedregardsrobertRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
[quote="RBush96589(at)aol.com"]welcome to the group Robert, I fly a corvair powered piet. I cruise at about 2400 to 2500 rpm with a cruisespeed of around 75 to 80 mph. that is with a tn. prop. 64/34 prop. climb isaround 400 to 600 fpm depending on the air. Randy Bush NX294RB> RandyThanks that is very useful help now I can compare with what is being offered andsee what I need to do differently. If anyone else would care to chime in itwould be appreciatedregardsrobertRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Welcome to the group Robert.But, if I might make a suggestion, have a little patience.I think you posted your question yesterday, and then removed it, due to lack ofresponse, not even a day later, with the comment "disappointing". I don't knowwhat sort of response time you were expecting, but it must have been prettyshort.So now, since you removed the question from your post, your message doesn't evenhave a question for anyone to respond to.One other thing to keep in mind is that every Pietenpol will perform slightly differently,due to the huge number of variables in play. First off, every Pietis hand made, and many if not all builders make some modifications (some tiny,and some huge) when building. There is a wide variety of powerplant options,but also propeller options as well. Wheels and landing gear also vary greatly(affecting the weight and drag). Probably the best single indicator (though notguaranteed) of good performance in a Pietenpol is the weight. The lighter theplane, the better it will likely perform.Good luck with your potential purchase.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Welcome to the group Robert.But, if I might make a suggestion, have a little patience.I think you posted your question yesterday, and then removed it, due to lack ofresponse, not even a day later, with the comment "disappointing". I don't knowwhat sort of response time you were expecting, but it must have been prettyshort.So now, since you removed the question from your post, your message doesn't evenhave a question for anyone to respond to.One other thing to keep in mind is that every Pietenpol will perform slightly differently,due to the huge number of variables in play. First off, every Pietis hand made, and many if not all builders make some modifications (some tiny,and some huge) when building. There is a wide variety of powerplant options,but also propeller options as well. Wheels and landing gear also vary greatly(affecting the weight and drag). Probably the best single indicator (though notguaranteed) of good performance in a Pietenpol is the weight. The lighter theplane, the better it will likely perform.Good luck with your potential purchase.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
I know what he was expecting! He was expecting me to reply with a link to http://lmgtfy.com/q?corvair+cruise+site%3matronics.com like all the other dunderheads get when they ask questions that can answered easily with their favorite search engine. Well, in my defense, I'm on vacation writing haikus instead, so I'm a little behind. -- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."> ________________________________________________________________________________
I know what he was expecting! He was expecting me to reply with a link to http://lmgtfy.com/q?corvair+cruise+site%3matronics.com like all the other dunderheads get when they ask questions that can answered easily with their favorite search engine. Well, in my defense, I'm on vacation writing haikus instead, so I'm a little behind. -- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."> ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Robert,My Corvair powered Piet is not yet in the air, so I cannot answer yourquestion. Keep in mind that there are only a handful of those flying rightnow, and not everyone monitors the list on a daily basis. It's not unusualto see responses 2 weeks later! You mentioned some performance problems. Maybe, if you were a little morespecific, you might be able to tap into the vast knowledge base of a broadergroup. There are some issues that are common, no matter what the powerplant, that can be overcome with rigging, W&B, etc. Throw it out there.....Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Robert,My Corvair powered Piet is not yet in the air, so I cannot answer yourquestion. Keep in mind that there are only a handful of those flying rightnow, and not everyone monitors the list on a daily basis. It's not unusualto see responses 2 weeks later! You mentioned some performance problems. Maybe, if you were a little morespecific, you might be able to tap into the vast knowledge base of a broadergroup. There are some issues that are common, no matter what the powerplant, that can be overcome with rigging, W&B, etc. Throw it out there.....Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Thanks to all who have shared each in his own way, and I'll leave it at that.The replies have provided helpful info can and will be added to what I have learnedadditionally from a friend that stopped by the hanger this evening.With the input shared on prop size and pitch I now know what was on the plane wasnot right, so it is the first thing to address..One thing I have learned was the carb. originally used was not large enough.and it did not have carb. heat , now has both.will get new prop install carb and hook up carb heat and test from thereregardsrichRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks to all who have shared each in his own way, and I'll leave it at that.The replies have provided helpful info can and will be added to what I have learnedadditionally from a friend that stopped by the hanger this evening.With the input shared on prop size and pitch I now know what was on the plane wasnot right, so it is the first thing to address..One thing I have learned was the carb. originally used was not large enough.and it did not have carb. heat , now has both.will get new prop install carb and hook up carb heat and test from thereregardsrichRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: cable cutting
Original Posted By: Ralph
Don't forget to buy the good fibre ones. Thosetan, clay looking cheapo dremel ones fracture apart if you just happen to look at them the wrongway.ClifA mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you anywhere! ----- Original Message -----
Don't forget to buy the good fibre ones. Thosetan, clay looking cheapo dremel ones fracture apart if you just happen to look at them the wrongway.ClifA mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you anywhere! ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: cable cutting
Original Posted By: RBush96589(at)aol.com
I took a page out of The Fisherman's book and went down to Harbor Freight for my cable cutters. http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-ca ... 507.htmlOn sale for $5.99 at the moment=2C and supposed to be good for cable up to 7/8".Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford=2C ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
I took a page out of The Fisherman's book and went down to Harbor Freight for my cable cutters. http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-ca ... 507.htmlOn sale for $5.99 at the moment=2C and supposed to be good for cable up to 7/8".Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford=2C ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?Robert, some other things you may want to look into on this plane are what was done to the corvair to convert it for aircraft use. if it is a straight out of the car bolt on to the plane engine using the blower fan and belt for cooling you are not going to get the power or performance of one using the latest up to date conversion techniques. I also would not feel safe flying behind it.things like forged pistons,a different cam and the right head work in my opinion are a must to make it close to a reliable aircraft engine. the impression i get from what you are saying with no carb heat and the wrong carb this guy may not know what it takes to make a corvair a safe aircraft engine. I would investigate a little harder before I made a purchase.Randy BushNX294RB________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?Robert, some other things you may want to look into on this plane are what was done to the corvair to convert it for aircraft use. if it is a straight out of the car bolt on to the plane engine using the blower fan and belt for cooling you are not going to get the power or performance of one using the latest up to date conversion techniques. I also would not feel safe flying behind it.things like forged pistons,a different cam and the right head work in my opinion are a must to make it close to a reliable aircraft engine. the impression i get from what you are saying with no carb heat and the wrong carb this guy may not know what it takes to make a corvair a safe aircraft engine. I would investigate a little harder before I made a purchase.Randy BushNX294RB________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: RBush96589(at)aol.com
RBush96589what do you get for fuel burn?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RBush96589what do you get for fuel burn?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: airlion
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?4.5 to 5.5 gph________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 04:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?4.5 to 5.5 gph________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 04:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: airlion
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Pietenpol-List: anticipated cruise?
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
I have flown NX41CC with two different engines and two props. I now have a third prop (Prince P-Tip)=2C but have not flown it yet. With the A65 and 72x42 Hegy wooden prop=2C the airplane cruised at 65-70MPH and sipped 4 gal/hr. I changed the engine to an A75 with a 72x36 Valley Engineering (Culver) wooden prop to allow the engine to turn up to its rated 2600 RPM for takeoff=2C which it does. It now cruises solidly at 70MPH and still sips about 4 gal/hr. at cruise=3B maybe just a tad more. I can make the airplane fly faster with full power=2C but it isn't happy there for long. I have made some high-speed passes down to the runway at our home field and also done some high-speed=2C high-power descents from altitude at 90-95MPH=2C but the airplane felt like it was going to jump out of its skin or pop its eyeballs=2C and I couldn't stand it either. It feels and flies best right around 65-70 MPH and that's where I am happiest with it too. Even at $5/gal for avgas=2C that's a $20 bill for an hour of flying in the most enjoyable airplane that I've ever had the privilege to fly. Well worth it. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford=2C ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
I have flown NX41CC with two different engines and two props. I now have a third prop (Prince P-Tip)=2C but have not flown it yet. With the A65 and 72x42 Hegy wooden prop=2C the airplane cruised at 65-70MPH and sipped 4 gal/hr. I changed the engine to an A75 with a 72x36 Valley Engineering (Culver) wooden prop to allow the engine to turn up to its rated 2600 RPM for takeoff=2C which it does. It now cruises solidly at 70MPH and still sips about 4 gal/hr. at cruise=3B maybe just a tad more. I can make the airplane fly faster with full power=2C but it isn't happy there for long. I have made some high-speed passes down to the runway at our home field and also done some high-speed=2C high-power descents from altitude at 90-95MPH=2C but the airplane felt like it was going to jump out of its skin or pop its eyeballs=2C and I couldn't stand it either. It feels and flies best right around 65-70 MPH and that's where I am happiest with it too. Even at $5/gal for avgas=2C that's a $20 bill for an hour of flying in the most enjoyable airplane that I've ever had the privilege to fly. Well worth it. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford=2C ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________