Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Well, in general, brass and aluminum are not recommended to be used in contactwith each other, due to the likelihood of galvanic reaction. Under the right conditions(in the presence of salt water, for instance), a galvanic cell willbe created, with the brass acting as the cathode, and the aluminum acting as theanode. The result will be a transfer of electrons, producing electricity, andalso corrosion of the aluminum.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lessons Learned
Pietenpol-List: Lessons Learned
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Ladies and Gentlemen Ive promised to provide Lessons Learned from my 22 Jul 2012engine failure. Ive had lots of time to think about the events, discuss themwith knowledgeable people, and discuss them with people who were actuallythere. I have also discussed the accident extensively with the FAA investigatorand we agree on the information Im presenting here.The engine lost power on takeoff. I attempted to turn back to the airport leadingto a classic stall-spin scenario. The engine lost power due to water contaminationin the fuel. Ill start with the fuel contamination. Bottom Line Up Front: Build your fuel systemusing the guidance from the Tony Bingelis books. My system is identicalto the schematic shown on page 159 of Tonys yellow book. Youll want to do alittle more research, though, and find out if hes put some applicable caveatsin there for you. Heres what I believe happened in my situation. Water entered the fuel tank insmall amounts throughout the course of Brodhead. This occurred due to the aircraftsitting outside in the rain and with my portable gas cans sitting outsideas well. The water amounts were small but added up. Enough water accumulatedin the bottom/rear of the tank and then, during flight, found its way to thetank outlet and thus to the carburetor at the worst possible time. During fuelchecks I thoroughly drained the gascolator. When the aircraft is on the ground,though, the bottom/rear of the fuel tank may have trapped some of the water.Heres what Ill do different procedurally:- I wont just drain the gascolator. Ill collect a proper fuel sample with a clearcontainer so I can determine how much water Im actually drawing off. - If the tank is not equipped with its own sump (i.e. using just the gascolatoras the sump) I will raise the tail, rock the wings, etc., in order to more thoroughlycheck for water that may be hiding in the tank.- I will protect the gas tank and my portable gas cans from water contaminationby simply covering them.Heres what Id do different design-wise:- I will purposely build a sump into my tank, thereby guaranteeing the abilityto drain water from the lowest portion of the tank. Now Ill address the engine failure on takeoff. I had changed the propeller for the trip home and made a quick test flight. Duringthe flight, I noticed a small miss. I returned to Brodhead, landed, checkedthe engine as best I could, checked for compression on all cylinders, drainedyet more fuel, and decided to try the flight again. The aircraft ran up perfectlyso I decided to take off. I made it about 1/8 mile south of the airportboundary to about 200 AGL when the aircraft started to slowly lose power.I immediately started a left turn back around to the airport. By the time theturn was complete, and despite putting in what I thought was extensive forwardstick, the aircraft lost control and fell to the ground. People arrived withina minute or so of the crash and started coordinating rescue.Heres what Id do differently: - The loss of power was quite gradual, like I was slowly pulling the throttle back.In the future, I will treat that situation the same as a sudden loss ofpower and land straight ahead. Ive spoken to several people about this scenarioand they agree that the gradual loss of power could be confusing. If the enginestops cold theres not much question about committing to the straight-aheadlanding.I present all of this for your consideration, education and information. Be advisedthat Im not really presenting this information for debate. Please use whatyou can and share as appropriate.Thank you for all of your help, thoughts and prayers.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Ladies and Gentlemen Ive promised to provide Lessons Learned from my 22 Jul 2012engine failure. Ive had lots of time to think about the events, discuss themwith knowledgeable people, and discuss them with people who were actuallythere. I have also discussed the accident extensively with the FAA investigatorand we agree on the information Im presenting here.The engine lost power on takeoff. I attempted to turn back to the airport leadingto a classic stall-spin scenario. The engine lost power due to water contaminationin the fuel. Ill start with the fuel contamination. Bottom Line Up Front: Build your fuel systemusing the guidance from the Tony Bingelis books. My system is identicalto the schematic shown on page 159 of Tonys yellow book. Youll want to do alittle more research, though, and find out if hes put some applicable caveatsin there for you. Heres what I believe happened in my situation. Water entered the fuel tank insmall amounts throughout the course of Brodhead. This occurred due to the aircraftsitting outside in the rain and with my portable gas cans sitting outsideas well. The water amounts were small but added up. Enough water accumulatedin the bottom/rear of the tank and then, during flight, found its way to thetank outlet and thus to the carburetor at the worst possible time. During fuelchecks I thoroughly drained the gascolator. When the aircraft is on the ground,though, the bottom/rear of the fuel tank may have trapped some of the water.Heres what Ill do different procedurally:- I wont just drain the gascolator. Ill collect a proper fuel sample with a clearcontainer so I can determine how much water Im actually drawing off. - If the tank is not equipped with its own sump (i.e. using just the gascolatoras the sump) I will raise the tail, rock the wings, etc., in order to more thoroughlycheck for water that may be hiding in the tank.- I will protect the gas tank and my portable gas cans from water contaminationby simply covering them.Heres what Id do different design-wise:- I will purposely build a sump into my tank, thereby guaranteeing the abilityto drain water from the lowest portion of the tank. Now Ill address the engine failure on takeoff. I had changed the propeller for the trip home and made a quick test flight. Duringthe flight, I noticed a small miss. I returned to Brodhead, landed, checkedthe engine as best I could, checked for compression on all cylinders, drainedyet more fuel, and decided to try the flight again. The aircraft ran up perfectlyso I decided to take off. I made it about 1/8 mile south of the airportboundary to about 200 AGL when the aircraft started to slowly lose power.I immediately started a left turn back around to the airport. By the time theturn was complete, and despite putting in what I thought was extensive forwardstick, the aircraft lost control and fell to the ground. People arrived withina minute or so of the crash and started coordinating rescue.Heres what Id do differently: - The loss of power was quite gradual, like I was slowly pulling the throttle back.In the future, I will treat that situation the same as a sudden loss ofpower and land straight ahead. Ive spoken to several people about this scenarioand they agree that the gradual loss of power could be confusing. If the enginestops cold theres not much question about committing to the straight-aheadlanding.I present all of this for your consideration, education and information. Be advisedthat Im not really presenting this information for debate. Please use whatyou can and share as appropriate.Thank you for all of your help, thoughts and prayers.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Lessons Learned
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Thanks, Kevin. I know it takes guts to come out in public and discuss what wentwrong. Hopefully others can learn from your experience. As my grandfather used to say "Experience is not the best teacher. OTHER PEOPLE'sexperience is the best teacher."Speedy recovery, my friend.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Thanks, Kevin. I know it takes guts to come out in public and discuss what wentwrong. Hopefully others can learn from your experience. As my grandfather used to say "Experience is not the best teacher. OTHER PEOPLE'sexperience is the best teacher."Speedy recovery, my friend.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Douwe Hi from England.What a beautiful job you have done on this aircraft!Love the colours and finish. It really looks the early 1930's part.Very well done!RegardsGerry________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Douwe Hi from England.What a beautiful job you have done on this aircraft!Love the colours and finish. It really looks the early 1930's part.Very well done!RegardsGerry________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Original Posted By: "tools"
Well said, both Kevin and Jack.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Well said, both Kevin and Jack.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
When I fabricated my replacement fuel tank I actually eliminated the lower rear tank drain that I had in there previously. (Too complicated). Maybe this was a mistake? I do have two fuel take-offs, one on front and one in back. In each of these I bumped the tank down low at that point. Hopefully this will help get the water down to the gascolator sump. I have one of those clear vinyl vertical tube fuel gages. This too is connected at a bump out (down) in the tank. I just have a 1/8" pipe plug in the bottom of that now, but I think I will put a quick drain in there . (I think Gary Boothe has one in his). I will change my pre-flight procedure, raising the tail and jostling the fuselage to try to persuade any water either down to the bottom of the fuel gauge, or down the fuel lines to the gascolator sump. I vow to be much more vigilant when checking for water in the drained fuel sample.Thank you Kevin for sharing all this stuff. It will make us all safer.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
When I fabricated my replacement fuel tank I actually eliminated the lower rear tank drain that I had in there previously. (Too complicated). Maybe this was a mistake? I do have two fuel take-offs, one on front and one in back. In each of these I bumped the tank down low at that point. Hopefully this will help get the water down to the gascolator sump. I have one of those clear vinyl vertical tube fuel gages. This too is connected at a bump out (down) in the tank. I just have a 1/8" pipe plug in the bottom of that now, but I think I will put a quick drain in there . (I think Gary Boothe has one in his). I will change my pre-flight procedure, raising the tail and jostling the fuselage to try to persuade any water either down to the bottom of the fuel gauge, or down the fuel lines to the gascolator sump. I vow to be much more vigilant when checking for water in the drained fuel sample.Thank you Kevin for sharing all this stuff. It will make us all safer.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lessons Learned
Original Posted By: John Kuhfahl
John,I have a J3 tank in Felix my GN1. There was an AD for the J3 to add a drain atthe back of the tank, mine had a threaded insert installed there already. I gota saf-air drain valve with the correct threads and installed it. The AD forthe J3 used a plastic tube that runs out the floor of the fuse, but there is notroom in the Piet front pit to do that, so I have to be carful my drain doesn'tdrip and the passengers are briefed not to jam their knee up against thedrain.Skip ----- Original Message -----
John,I have a J3 tank in Felix my GN1. There was an AD for the J3 to add a drain atthe back of the tank, mine had a threaded insert installed there already. I gota saf-air drain valve with the correct threads and installed it. The AD forthe J3 used a plastic tube that runs out the floor of the fuse, but there is notroom in the Piet front pit to do that, so I have to be carful my drain doesn'tdrip and the passengers are briefed not to jam their knee up against thedrain.Skip ----- Original Message -----